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De Klerk: 'No animosity' with Mandela
By Lucky Gold, CNN
Editor's Note: F.W. de Klerk, the last leader of white South Africa, who joined with Nelson Mandela to bring an end to apartheid and shared a Nobel Peace Prize for their achievement, was recently interviewed at a summit of Nobel Laureates in Chicago and appeared on Thursday’s Amanpour.
So I’m a Convert
It was noted that Mandela had once called de Klerk “a man of integrity” but had taken it back, regretting that de Klerk had never renounced the principle of apartheid.
De Klerk responded: “Well, let me first say I’m not aware that Mr. Mandela says I’ve never renounced apartheid.” He then said, “I have made the most profound apology in front of the Truth Commission and on other occasions about the injustices which were wrought by apartheid.”
But then he added: “What I haven’t apologized for is the original concept of seeking to bring justice to all South Africans through the concept of nation states (essentially creating two separate states, one black and one white).”
“But in South Africa it failed,” he said. “And by the end of the ‘70’s, we had to realize, and accept and admit to ourselves that it had failed. And that is when fundamental reform started.”
He was then asked if apartheid failed because it was unworkable, or because it was simply morally repugnant.
“There are three reasons it (apartheid) failed,” he said. “It failed because the whites wanted to keep too much land for themselves. It failed because we (whites and blacks) became economically integrated, and it failed because the majority of blacks said that is not how we want our rights.”
Still, De Klerk would not back off his belief in the validity of the original concept of “separate but equal” nation states.
“There is this picture that apartheid was…used to be compared to Nazism,” said de Klerk. “It’s wrong, and on that, I don’t apologize for saying that what drove me as a young man, before I decided we need to embrace a new vision, was a quest to bring justice for black South Africans in a way which would not – that’s what I believed then – destroyed the justice to which my people were entitled.”
“That’s how I was brought up,” said de Klerk. “And it was in an era when also in America and elsewhere, and across the continent of Africa, there was still not this realization that we are trampling upon the human rights of people. So I’m a convert.”
Eleven official languages
Again, he was asked if he wanted to take the opportunity to say that apartheid was, in retrospect, morally repugnant.
“I can only say in a qualified way,” said de Klerk. “Inasmuch as it trampled human right, it was – and remains – and that I’ve said also publicly, morally reprehensible.” He added, “But the concept of giving as the Czechs have it and the Slovaks have it, of saying that ethnic unities with one culture, with one language, can be happy and can fulfill their democratic aspirations in an own state, that is not repugnant.”
“With the advantage of hindsight,” said de Klerk, “we should have started the reform much earlier…But the intention was to end at a point which would ensure justice for all. And the tipping point in my mind was when I realized… we need to abandon the concept of separateness. And we need to build a new nation with its eleven official languages, accommodating its diversity, but taking hands and moving forward together.”
We call each other on birthdays
Mandela, will turn ninety four in July and de Klerk was asked if they were friends.
“Actually, we’re close friends,” said de Klerk. “Not the closest in the sense that we see each other once a week. Also, we live apart. But he’s been in my home as a guest; I’ve been in his home as a guest. When I go to Johannesburg, my wife and I have had tea with him and Graca, his wife.”
“We call each other on birthdays,” he said. “There is no animosity left between us.” But then he added: “Historically, there was.”
CNN’s Ken Olshansky produced this piece for television.
@camanpour on Twitter
Stange that this interview with De Klerk has caused such a stir immediately after it was aired but also that few people noticed and that the media did its best to ignore president Jacob Zuma's singing of 'Kill the Boer (white people)... see how they run' with relish such and impunity earlier this year. For some dark reason the media continue to ignore growing official and black racism in South Africa.
Yes Willem and why they do not mention what is going in Nigeria being thankful to Shell company? Its much worse than any apartheid. And the reason for ignoring the fact of racial conflict still existing in SA is plain and simple. If that start highlighting the problem it means they admit the fall of apartheid actually wasn't such a great idea. But who likes to admit their own mistakes and on such a global scale?
Willem do you stay in SA? Have you ever heard Jacob Zuma singing that song. Do yourself a favour and stop being stupid
Dougie you are correct – but at the same time JZ has never told anybody NOT to sing the song and in fact has defended the singing of it
Yes, indeed! Recorded on Media24's website in January 2012 in Bloemfontein.
Actually, Zuma's has his own hit song. It is called "Umshini wami" which translates as "Bring me my machine gun." The sentiments expressed in the song are the same as that in "Kill the Boer."
Dougie, he actually did sing it in Manguang in February whilst on the stage, part of his usual dance and song routine!!!! Google some videos of that centenary and have a look see.
Ok Im a bit of with the date, it was on 11 January 2012, below some links, so it appears even your Pressy wants you dead boet!!!!
http://censorbugbear-reports.blogspot.com/2012/01/zuma-sang-kill-boer-in-bloemfontein.html
"The first charge was for Zuma's singing "the forbidden song", "dubul' ibhunu" (shoot the boer) at the ANC's centenary celebrations in Bloemfontein on January 11."
http://www.vocfm.co.za/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=3510:anc-rejects-volk-complaint&Itemid=121
Once a terrorist, always a terrorist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fzRSE_p1Ys
Was it not Julius Malema that sang "Shoot the boer"? and has he not been kicked out of the ANC? For all the controversies he has caused.
The very same and that is one of the reasons why I have reacted in the way I did.
Willem you have no idea what you are talking about, there is not way you live in ZA
Mankwana – what do you call Employment Equity and BEE other than RACISM? Or are you also of the opinion that seeing it is Black on White it is not racism?
I live in Pretoria but you live in cuckoo-land if you also live here and did not see that outrage in Bloemfontein.
Johan, you clearly know nothing about the policies you're talking about. And I'm pretty sure you haven't read them either. EE seeks to affirm those who were previously systematically excluded from job opportunities. These include white women. In fact the reality is that the biggest beneficiaries of EE are white women, followed by Indians, followed by Africans and finally Coloureds. The people who are really getting a raw deal are Coloureds, yet the media wants us to believe that it's white people. In 2010 more than 60% of people employed into management positions in SA where white. I challenge you to check these facts and then argue from a position of strength not ignorance.
I think you mean Malema, Willem.
No Tim, Jacob Zuma in person... and here for all of the idiots who have already denied that it happened... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fzRSE_p1Ys ... Yes, we do not need Zuma's mindset here because it is simply dangerous.
Ohhh...please Willem thought we dont' need that type of mindset no more man.
Let's pray for his repentence.he must not go to his grave with such mentality.
This man is making a mockery of himself, what a shame!
Shame bitter old man! Some people can't believe that Apartheid actually ended and wish they still had the sick power of being the boss. Too bad times are changing...
What is the problem with his state of mind? Should the whites have shot the black people like the americans did to the native americans and killed most of them?
No they tried to create 2 seperate and equal states! These states would have be apart from each other the same as Canada is seperate from USA...
The plan didn't work off course and as he said the whites should have realised this earlier, but that is the problem with hindsight it comes to late. The blacks (as were their right) fought for their freedom and they whites seeking to protect themselves fought back...
This fight delayed the process even further. People do not want to be reason or share their country with terrorist (as Mandela himself admits he was). Thats wat makes South Africa great! instead of killing each other we reached a compromise and are trying to work and live together.
Sure you dont want to go there. Because if you do Ms Amanpour, the world can will indict Netanyahus for crimes worse than those in Aparthied S. Africa. When the zionists have liberals like Christiane they dont need hawks. Sadly the right wing Israeilis will never stop behaving like abused children. So what if they cant get back on the Nazis, there are always the Arabs..
please read mr. de klerks statements much more clearly before calling him names. he is not bitter.
I always appreciate honest politicians, regardless of their points of view.
As much as we like to elevate people such as Mandela, Guevara, Churchill, we forget all too easily the other side of their lives. Churchill was a renound racist, Mandela plotted to blow up innocent civilians. Can we justify his motives? Is if there a difference between him and Timothy McVeigh other than that McVeigh succeeded and Mandela went to prison?
What few seem to understand is that control of South Africa was literally handed over to the ANC overnight, and peacefully. Despite his significant role in doing so, De Klerk did so and was not seen as the ultimate victor here, Mandela was. Mandela's wife, a woman guilty of murder, burning a boy alive, marching in victory, while De Klerks wife got murdered a few years later.
I've grown to respect Mandela, but I'm a realist at the same time.
I couldn't agree more.
F W De Klerk and Mandela TOGETHER put the apartheid into the past and averted a potential civil war outbreak. I found the pressing questions towards De Klerk distasteful and unwarranted.
Imagine if Amanpour invited Mandela into the interview and asked him an array of questions around his planned bombing of women and children along with all the other plots his freedom fighters (commonly seen as terrorists by the opposing side) were involved in?
Sergio, you should read the book called "In a different time" only then, you will understand the violation of human rights back then.
Then, the reason for the uproar is purely because De Cheek spewed propaganda, especially when saying that blacks had a right to vote when we all know they didn't 🙂
Jon – he GAVE our country away -without us saying that it was OK – we were never told what he had in mind when we voted YES – Flat Wheel de Klerk sent his juniors to the negotiating table and then there was the famous incident when he realised what his juniors did he said to them – My God do you realise that you have just given the country away?
Johan, when whites voted yes in the 1992 referendum (overwhelmingly) they gave him a mandate to give away "your" country. Although the referendum was to show the weakness of the right-wing, it also serves as a strong refutation of revisionist "stab in the back" theories.
Hi Jon, you're truly the only one speaking sense here. Madiba today is recognised as a hero though he was a killer? He deserved to go to jail and they should never have let him out. SA Government should hang all murderers, rapists and child molesters. They should bring back the death penalty.
What happened back then was a virtual war caused by the animosity between blacks and whits hence murders that indeed took place as well as those that were planned should not be confused with intended emotional desires by individuals, but rather a duty that was required of the person involved. If madiba is said to be a murderer, what then makes those that deliberated on the decisions made to kill the exhorbitant number of blacks over the years, let alone the school kids massacred in 1976?
You are correct Job, but at the Ricinus trial, Mandela did not de those things. He served 27 years in jail. De Klerk apologised in front of a truth commission and received a noble peace prize.
It's outweighing gold and silver. Hmmmny
Zuma sang the song: "Bring me my machine Gun"....That is the correct fact. Peter Mokaba sang the song "Kill the Boer...." Let us first get the facts right before we get involved discussing the morailty of a previous system.
We are long past the apartheid days and have moved on, rebuilding the country and leaving behind all the racial hatred. I felt that this interview and the questions asked to one of South Africa's former presidents was not only badly timed (20 years too late perhaps), but I question its purpose.
F W De Klerk said that he did not condone the injustices that occurred during the apartheid era, but did in its original concept.
Similarly, we could look at the core concept of communism and how it was designed to ensure everyone is equal and receives a fair share for their labors, but look how that has gone wrong every time when put into practice.
Bringing the relationship and past-differences of two great presidents into question seems only a shot at increasing viewer ratings. Have a little more respect.
The best thing for South Africa is to split into two states, one for whites and other minority groups since the new black government hates us so much and one for the black majority.
Why don’t they hand-over the Western and Northern Cape provinces to us and then we see which of the two will prosper.
Pete, you backward minded and that will not solve anything! We South Africans (Both black and white) need to leave this in the past and start focusing on the future.
Thato then tell the current ANC goverment to stop all this EE and BEE nonsense as this is STILL RACISM
Hoor, hoor! (Hear, hear...)
Pete – The ANC goverment will never allow this as it will then be living proof that their policies have failed and that they cannot govern. We will also have to then set up a new SADF to protect our borders against the hordes who would want to live in a prosperous and safe country
Why do you want to separate, couldn't get a visa to OZ? Don't like the climate in Oranija? Try Canada or New Zeland.
Isn't it obvious? Can you point to one sucessful black state, and please don't name Anglo-America's Botswana. Or for that matter, one clean public toilet run, or frequented, by blacks?
Poor F.W is leaving in denial .You 're not the only one, many right wing Afrikaners are still leaving in denial. F.W. is talking nonsense when he says homelands were "historical there". Thats pure rubbish, homelands were forced to blacks by the policy of the apartheid govt of "divide and rule." F.W. has a horrible memory .Its typical of a dead snake. He is seeking media attention. F.W. is being disingenious and its really unfortunate at his age he will go down to the grave in denial.
@CNN should not only focussing on portraying S.A. as a crime haven and corrupt country. A lot of good has happened in S.A since 1994 and you have failed to report that . Stop being bias in your reporting, you need to balance your story. In the past few weeks you have been reporting negative things about S.A. This tendency also happened during the preparations for the Soccer World Cup 2010. CNN and other Afro-pessimists were busy trying to discredit S.A's preparedness for the event, and "whether a country with millions of people leaving below the poverty is it advisable to spend billions of U.S. dollars on this event of this maginitude".
Mbulelo, yes, a lot of 'good' – what good? Look at the government now, and look at it BEFORE the 90's. You are living in DENIAL of what the President does, together with Nathi M; Juju; does hate speech all the time and gets away with it! oh please ... I think the whites are a lot of bang-gatte because we cannot stand together and be as violent and brutal as you are. Sorry, I have to differ with you. I'll glady take the name snake, instead of MURDERERS AND RAPISTS.
Nonsense and don't the miserable ANC or flatter yourself! I have seen very little of that 'a lot of good' and the rot is continuing at an alarming pace – any objective observer will confirm that.
Poor Mbulelo and FW, both living in denial. Allot of good has happened since 1994 ?huh?, just like allot of good happened during Apartheid , but guess what, only for a few in both era's. Clearly you are one of the few benefiting from 1994.
Please, put your fat mouth to better use and do something for the unity of our SA, or live with your chip somewhere else, because you're no asset to us in SA. POWER TO THE PEOPLE – UNITE!!
Please tell King Goodwill Zwelithini and the assortment of Xhosa Paramount chiefs and Kings that they have no fiefdoms so that they can get out of the public purse. Then learn to read so that you can master the basic history of South Africa.
yes they have those fiefdoms, the kingdoms still exist and recognized by law – just that they aren't statutory.
See unlike the Afrikaners & Boers (who claim and are still squatting on millions of hectares of land they stole), the land is theirs.
There's no need to study history that was falsified by the broederbond to justify theft, oppression and apartheid – it's all pure nonsense.
Please tell King Goodwill Zwelithini and the assortment of Xhosa Paramount chiefs and Kings that they have no fiefdoms so that they can get out of the public purse. Then learn to read so that you can master the basic history of South Africa.
I am no fan of Mr. de Klerk. He sold out his people and his party lied to their supporters. That said, I am happy to see that he actually mentions why Mandela was put in jail in the first place. Mandela tried to overthrow the government through violent means. His organization, the ANC bombed a restaurant in my town killing children. He has blood on his hands! He is not the saint CNN and the likes make him out to be. If you think that he was justified because he was fighting against a repressive government then I guess you think nothing of killing children.
Willem van den Berg, you should not be surprised, when it comes to South Africa only us whites are racist. Jacob Zuma and Julius Malema can sing "kill the settler kill the boer" and that is fine by the world and media. Whites are murdered every day in SA and nothing is reported. Several years ago a family was murdered at their home. The 3 year old daughter was taken outside and shot execution style in the head. Only the local newspapers reported about the murders.Yet at the same time all we saw on cable TV news was the death of a British woman after her dog attacked her in her flat in London. Imagine if this happened in California...
SA is a mess and it is falling apart with bankrupt municipalities, corrupt police, rampant rape and violence and a government who sings song about killing minorities. But hey, TIA and blame the whites. Business as usual.
He was the weakest leader ever to rule SA. Now that he see what is happening in SA he wants to change his mind. Apartheid according to any dictionary is to keep ANYTHING apart, how can it be wrong. How can it be wrong when there is apartheid all over the world, it is just not written into the law books?
Racism is the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.
WHY DID YOU GIVE SOUTH AFRICA AWAY?? Do you see what is happening nowdays and what you have done to our beloved country. Have you no shame left, what do I tell my children and my grandchildren. However I do tell my children to leave SNAKES alone.
Instead of bickering amongst ourselves, we as the people of South Attics should work towards reconciliation and racial cohesion.
This interview tells me, inclusive of the comments, we have a long way to go
Jenny, take your head out of the sand (deep black hole)
South Africa like the rest of this dark continent is going down the drain because the mamparas is in charge. What did blacks ever invented? They ride on the backs of the whites. They are stupid and lazy. They belong in the middle ages. We as whites want our place under the sun where we can prosper.
for your stupidity william,, we'll invent a rape tool that will bring out your racist intestines ..
I do not see compromise in South Africa, I see genocide and targeted racism.
Deon-Genocide is all that we can call the systematic killing of white farmers
Mr De Klerk, could you please comment on the mass GENOCIDE taking place in South Africa. The thuggery and large scale theft taking place etc etc etc. I suppose you can't cause there is no more South African Defence Force and Police to do the job anymore.
A young "white" lady (I hate using colour) sent this on twitter this morning: "We have to reform older South Africans or they will continue to raise poisoned young ones." @MarkSoldOutByFrikkie
Jenny the issues in today's South Africa is not about colour. Please dont bring colour into it. Its not a debate anymore. It is the large scale theft and "trying to legalise theft(E-Toll) and the mass killing of people. The destruction of the security forces, the non performance of normal services etc etc. If you want to engage me in meaniful debate, then lets engage on these matters. The De Klerk issue is such a deep deep rooted issue with OLD WHITE MALE SOUTH AFRICANS, I can go on foever. I say once a snake always a snake..
It so sad that so many racist South Africans agree with de Klerk statements in this interview. The realities of this situation are these: yes, Mandela and the ANC resported to violent revolution after decades of peacful protest and attempts at negotiating with the Aprartheid goverment not only failed but caused the government to become increasingly brutal and unjust towards non-white South Africans. Yes, the Rivonia trialists were given a fair trial in accordance with the laws of the day, BUT those laws were indended to be biased against non-whites and freedom fighters/ terrorists so how fair can we really say it was? Yes, the slogan of the Apartheid regime was 'seperate but equal' but the reality is that the system was never intended to afford non-whites equality on any socio-economic plane, not even in the homelands which de Klerk seems to remember so fondly. 'Seperate but equal' was the spin used to explain the regimes injustice and human rights abuses. Have a look at the laws passed under Apartheid (both pertaining to the Homelands and 'the rest of South Africa') and try to find a case to support the idea that the intention of the Apartheid governments' was every true equality for blacks in a separate society from whites.
The reality is that Aparthied was an immoral concept in theory and practice. My opinion is that those who want to trivialize it or justify it are attempting to passify their own guilt or the guilt they know belongs to their older relatives, etc. My opinion also is that de Klerk got far more credit than he was due for the ending of Apartheid and that Mandela was paid hansomely for his forgiveness, something the rest of the non-white South African population did not get to share in.
Mandela's no saint, he never was. He was a convinient and apt focus of a marketing campaign that was very effective: he gave a human, articulate, good looking face to all oppressed South Africans that garnered support and sympathy around the world for the anti-Apartheid movement.
It's also my opinion that many of the Apartheid era Ministers of Defense, Justice, Native Affairs, Police, Intelligence and the Prime Ministers still living in '94 should have been tried by the ICC for crimes against humanity. Perhaps then there wouldn't be this widely acceptance of trivializing what Apartheid was (evil, immoral, unjust, cruel, corrupt).
Well said Puleng, and a great thoughtout approach too 🙂
Puleng and what about all those current ministers who were involved in muredr, rape and butality against the persons in camps in Angola lile Quattro – or is that forgiven because it was done in the name of Freedom. What about a certain woman who we all know was guilty of toturing and murdering one of her followers because he was SUSPECTED of being a spy?
And these words do not describe ANC rule: evil, immoral, unjust, cruel, corrupt?
Farm Murders in South Africa
This is a tribute to the 4000 + Farmers who were murdered in South Africa since 1991.
http://southafrica-pig.blogspot.com/2012/02/farm-murders-in-south-africa.html
As for Jenny: we will raise children that will survive in an openly hostile environment! Come live in ZA for one year then sprout your Liberal drivel again.
Interesting. Mr Mandela will be turning ninety-four, not ninety as stated in the article. Please check for factual accuracy.
How do you even dare defend apartheid?
Can you defend holocaust?
Can you point to one black African state that out preformed South Africa under white rule using the UN human development index? The same UN that declared apartheid a crime against humanity. Moreover can you explain why SA has droped in that index under black rule. If you can't find an black African country that was beter of than apartheid SA it is obvious that black rule is a crime against humanity.
You are delusional. Not every culture wants white rule or wants their countries to be like Europe or the US. Africans were quite happy living their own lives before you evil whites invaded it. Don't like it, go back to Europe. I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms. Bye bye. Now get the hell out. NOTE: Whites have stolen more from Africa and now they're complaining that AFrica is not being well run. If we steal your people and your wealth, you won't be well run either. Get out of here.
Mzukisi – can you defend the racism that is happening currently in South Africa> Can you defend the on going genocide in South Africa?
How do you defend the ANC? Do you defend holocaust?
I will continue to pray for change, and to have all wounds caused by the apartheid system and the corrupt behavior of the ANC to be healed, South Africa is a beautiful country, I hope to see one day black and white working together to try a solve all problems facing us, instead of focusing our energies on our petty differences
Moeng – I pray for that – unfortunately I believe it will never happen as long as we have racism by black on white and the murder of our farmers stop
Moeng, I do not pray anymore but I cannot agree more with your more rational sentiments.
Here, for the international audience: Government under ANC rule.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/sf-south-africa/cri-crime
http://www.saps.gov.za/statistics/reports/crimestats/2011/crime_stats.htm
Download the PDF with full report. Remember, that 18,000 murders per annum is low for ZA. It used to be higher but we are so lucky that that is being turned around. Attempted murder is roughly double that amount. Also consider, what is considered a low intensity conflict. Take the example of Darfur. Some 300,000 dead in a decade. Take ZA: 190,000 dead in a decade?!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/04/27/idUSN27541224._CH_.2400
Poor Mbulelo and FW, both living in denial. Allot of good has happened since 1994 ?huh?, just like allot of good happened during Apartheid , but guess what, only for a few in both era's. Clearly you are one of the few benefiting from 1994.
Please, put your fat mouth to better use and do something for the unity of our SA, or live with your chip somewhere else, because you're no asset to us in SA.
We will continue to pray for all this troubled souls that still want live in hell (Apartheid). Who keep calling black people evil names. God has a plan for all of us and all be well Soon. May god bless you in abundance . He greater than all the hate and APARTHEID !!
Every time questions are raised about the ZA government, the race card gets played. In fact, that is the only card that gets played all over South Africa. It is cheap and ignorant.
Deon, wild denial or not recognizing the blind, hell-bent, unilateral and devastating official racism in South Africa and the ANC's own terrible damaging effect on all aspects of south African life is not only foolish, stupid, short-sighted and dishonest, it is also oiling the slippery slope to perdition and helping to change us into another Zimbabwe. It is not who our enemy is in this case but what...
Well said Mofaya. Please include in those prayers, our Farmers, that produce the food for our country, that are being killed.
Please also include, stop the thieving. Thanks
As talented and funny as he is, I think the sole racial focus and making fun of an OLD culture people, with wars getting more and more violent, he should focus on making fun of both sides, west, east, north, south !!
shoot the booer and bring my machine gun is aimed the sick whites like william and johan and his aides. Go back to where your white @ss came from
and who is the racist now?
Junior -in my office I have appointed two ladies of colour – not because of their colour or some stupid goverment quota system – but because they were the best for the position. Our organisation also pays in excess of the minimum as legislated as we believe you pay peanuts -you get monkeys. This is how I wish our country to be run
dude, you will not get applause for hiring a coloured graduate in economics and paying them 2k because its over the minimum wage. i am sure you are smarter than that so get over yourself.
Junior -actually they are matriculants- that was the job spec – and No I do noot need applause – but unfortunately it would appear that you are incapable of being able to communicate at a meaningfil level – so ag shame
I see lot of hatred over here,how can someone say blacks are fools and lazy,what have we done blacks that we are hated so much.One thing that amaze me when you look @ history of South Africa there was no white man before bloody racist jan van riebeck came.We were @ peace and you lot came and u talk nonsense oppressed us in our own country and we u want to justify that crap before you all start talking rubbish check yourselves .We did not ask you to come and also being uncivilised was not problem.If you all whaite racist have a problem go back where you belong.Africa and South Africa is for blacks. White is south africa are all racist and thiefs who came to South Africa and rob us.
Hassan -who is the racist now?
Hassan ... you have a nerve speaking as you do. Muslims are NOT native to South Africa. The Xhosa, Bantu, Zulu and Hottentot were. So don't include yourselve as indiginous just because your skin is not white. Besides, get your head out the bucket. We live NOW and not in past of 300 years ago. To move forward one needs to deal with the present and not the past. The past can only be refered to when one wants to avoid making the same mistakes. Based on your feelings, it appears you would be quite happy living the life of all those who flee to South Africa from other parts of Africa, like Zimbabwe, Mozamique, Kenya,Nigeria and many more other Countries that are in civil war and in ruins, starving and captive slaves to their African Warlords. Is that what you want? If so why not just leave? Why stay in a country that whites improved, prospered created wealth in and turned over to Black Rule? Go live in a country where the law is the machine gun, punga, mecheti and the smell of death fills the air. What about some of the muslim practices on the African continent where woman and girls are hung in public because the are raped. Or set on fire by their husbands, brothers etc because they don't fit in with their all male plans? Why not use your limited intelligence to do some good where you live rather than harbour thoughts of what you were never a part of or wanting to live back in days of prehistoric times?
The bushmen are the indigenous people of SA. SA was then colonised by whites and blacks.
Tell em Hassan...the notion of some white people that they are the reason for evolution sickens me
ROFL – someone with the name Hassan claims to be have been in southern Africa before the arrival of the White settlers in 1652. Was it your slave trading Near Eastern grand daddy that was there? Your ignorance and hypocrisy are equally inspiring. No wonder ZA is in the state it is in – you must be part of the governing elite since you have access to computers.
It is quite evident that many who criticize Pres de Klerk and Apartheid have no idea of its positive factors. It seems as if they have been brought up by the propaganda that exists about Apartheid. When Apartheid was established I was alresady well into adulthood. I was present at Independence celebrations of both the Transkei in 1976 and Bophuthutsana in 1977. I'll never forget the joy and jubilations of the massive crowd when at midnight they received their independence and freedom that they had requested. nKosi Sikele in its original and correct form was sung with great gusto by the masses in the Transkei as well as the white people present. Millions of rands were punmped into the homelands; white farms were bought up by the Government and handed to the Black farmers. Thousands of schools were established. Money for black education increased every year until in the late 80's more money was being spent on Black educqtion than on white education. Top grade Universities were built for each black nation who became self-supporting with the continued support of the Apartheid Goverrnment. Goodwill existe in those early days until the Communists intervened and stirred up hatred. They had worked their way through Africa destroying one country after the other.
Pres de Klerk had every right to be proud of those achiement as they were meant to be. Why don't we hear about the 600 innocent blacks who wer burnt alive with their neclacing?
It is time for the young people of today to stand together and concentrate on re-establishing the goodwill that existed then.
Jonathan- well said
Gentle men, its time uo accept the status core–Africa has changed. either we stay we these blacks in their country or leave. l have accepted them, and work with them, can speak their languages, and l have no problems with them, what distrubs me, is the level of pretending among us the white communiies; we have to change, we lostthe country to its people. we are plastic african let be real here
I am a Nigerian, and I believe it it high time South Africans of all races moved on. Build a model nation like the US.
Pray do tell how does FW live with himself white people are being starved robbed murders raped totured in the wost way the jews were put to death in gas chambers but the white people of SA are being put to death in such a cruel way it is unspeacable in there own home from babys to old people
Racism only existed in politic never in the normal households of SA my best friend Kelleboni whose parents worked on our family farm was black and I was white we are still friends I ate at her house and she ate at my house she was never treated bad nor was I so please even today on our farm our workers stay with us for generations they are our family
For those who want to know a little bit more about President Mandela watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKO7MmJ60zY
Apartheid – the highs and the lows, the now and the then – for all the people of South Africa. An oldish, but still very relevant video.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=apartheid+the+truth.flv&page=2
If you were already well into adulthood in 1948, you are clearly a very old man indeed, and deserving of some respect, but I think you are hallucinating.
Only two of those 'Bantustans' were ever made 'independent' and then only when suitable puppets could be found to run them. Sure a few white farms were bought to 'consolidate' them, whereas thousands upon thousands of blacks were stripped of their land and citizenship to purify the 'white homeland' "Separate but equal" was a slogan, never a policy.
Spending on 'black' education was never more than 1/10th of that on 'white' education per child – there were no 'thousands' of schools – only a few primary schools, so that blacks would be able to read the 'whites only / net blankes' signs. The 'Top grade universities' were staffed by political appointees and people who couldn't get jobs elsewhere.
If we don't try to understand the damage that 40 years of that obscene ideology did to everyone in the country, we will never be able to fix it. We certainly have a long way to go and it won't be easy. But at least we have started.
More than 60 persent of the people that sits in the parliament in South Africa have criminal records. The current president is a thief and is morally corrupt. The demise of this country is a forgone conclusion. Just look to the rest of Africa. There are only 3 kinds of "democracy" in Africa. They are one party states, dictatorships or military juntas.
So sad, but typical, that people are unable to comprehend what a person has said. Ever considered how context affects meaning? FW should know better than to use intelligent conversation when his audience is so uneducated.
BTW, has anyone seen that video where Mandela sings "Kill the boer" with his commie buddies? I have....
Please see http://www.neo-genocide.co.za; censorbugbear-reports and boergenocide there you will see the reality and de Klerks legacy left of apartheid
Funny how the world kept nagging about apartheid. Most of them wasn't in South Africa that time and doen't have a clue what was going on. All the media distribute is how the white man did wrong but they do not show the beginning of the problem why they did that. Have they ever seen how schools been burned down, shops been demolished during strikes, women and specially children raped, farmers been killed and then you still have the president and his youth league commie sing kill the farmer? No, I don't think so and I guess specially the USA should be quiet because they did worse to the Indians, steal the oil and minerals in Africa. Hey, they could not do that in South Africa because the white government stopped them of doing so and when the world put sanctions against SA, that was the time that the SA economy were at it's strongest and we were self sufficient. The SA schools and Universities were of the highest standard in the world and now we were 43 on the standard list. Wake-up people, don't just look through one eye, God gave you two!!!!!
If one look at all the atrocities commited in Africa then apartheid is like a sunday school picnic.
Reading the above comments, it's very clear that not everyone understands what Mr. De Klerk has actually said:
He stated:
– He is totally against the human right abuses that took place at the time of Apartheid.
– He seeked to bring justice to All South Africans.
– He believes that Separate but Equal states can work well and be advantages to both parties, but it was not the reality during the period of Apartheid (1948-1994).
Apartheid failed because
– the different nations in SA became to economically dependent upon each other; and
. the "whites" (Afrikaner and English South Africans) was too greedy: They wanted to be in control of too large area of the country.
There is really no racism in his statement, nor evil!
Separate states
: Separate states is still (& will continue to be) the option that will be advantages to all of us in Southern African over the long run IF it is implemented in the correct way!
: It should not be based primarily on race, but rather on our separate nationhoods (Afrikaner, English, Zulu, Xhosa,etc.) as our cultures are so much different.
The current ANC government have clearly shown that they do not regard us (Afrikaners or English for that matter) as Africans, and that they actually want us to emigrate to another continent (due to our race and different cultures), although we (Afrikaners) have been in African for almost 400 years now.
As Afrikaners, we should be allowed to have a country of our own (where we are not an oppressed minority) . We are just as much Africans as Australians are Australian.
With this I totally agree!
How
de klerk is wrong in comparing the dissolution of czechoslovakia with the homelands in apartheid za (and obviously his comparison was with reference to them). czechs and slovaks separated consensually, after the separation the one state had no co-determination in the affairs of the other, there was no mutual dependency or supremacy after the dissolution, the territory (and the resources) which the two now independent states would dispose, was not controversial. in one sentence: czechs and slovaks were ate eye level, before and after the separation... de klerk has proven his splendour and i hope he will keep his course of the last years
I see a reporter that is more interested in causing controversy and response to her article with questions that have already been asked and answered than the truth. I am sure at this stage of both Former Presidents FW De Klerk and Nelson Mandela's lives they would want us to move on from these kind of questions. I am also sure that the majority of South Africans just want to move forward together in peace (that is what I hope). I am a South African born in the 80's and grew up in the 90's. Can we just move on
What sounds to me like a real mockery is attempts of la-la-land citizens who never ever in their lives smelt south-african life and still try to add their 5 cent to the whole thing Actually their talk is not even 5 cent worthy.
@Hassan you better go back to school and pay more attention to your history.
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Do you remember the blockbuster hit film The Matrix that was released in 1999? You may not know this, but it has deep spiritual implications concerning the times we are living in and Bible prophecy.
It tells a story of how these "agents" are trying to turn us into machines. We are closer then ever before for this to become a reality when they cause us to receive an implantable microchip in our body during a time when physical money will be no more.
You may have seen on NBC news concerning the implantable RFID microchip that some people are getting put in their hand to make purchases, but did you know this microchip matches perfectly with prophecy in the Bible?
"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name...
You also may have heard of the legendary number "666" that people have been speculating for possibly thousands of years on what it actually means. This article shares something I haven't seen before, and I don't think there could be any better explanation for what it means to calculate 666. This is no hoax. Very fascinating stuff!
...Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666" (Revelation 13:16-18 NKJV).
To see all the details showing why the Bible foretold of all these things, check out this article!
Article: https://biblewoke.com/rfid-mark-of-the-beast-666-revealed
GOD is sending out His end time warning:
"Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, 'If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name'" (Revelation 14:9-11).
In the Islamic religion they have man called the Mahdi who is known as their messiah of whom they are waiting to take the stage. There are many testimonies from people online who believe this man will be Barack Obama who is to be the biblical Antichrist based off dreams they have received. I myself have had strange dreams about him like no other person. So much so that I decided to share this information.
He came on stage claiming to be a Christian with no affiliation to the Muslim faith...
"In our lives, Michelle and I have been strengthened by our Christian faith. But there have been times where my faith has been questioned - by people who don't know me - or they've said that I adhere to a different religion, as if that were somehow a bad thing," – Barack Obama
...but was later revealed by his own family members that he indeed is a devout Muslim.
So what's in the name? The meaning of someones name can say a lot about a person. God throughout history has given names to people that have a specific meaning tied to their lives. How about the name Barack Obama? Let us take a look at what may be hiding beneath the surface...
"And He (Jesus) said to them (His disciples), 'I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven'" (Luke 10:18).
In the Hebrew language we can uncover the meaning behind the name Barack Obama.
Barack, also transliterated as Baraq, in Hebrew is: lightning
baraq – Biblical definition:
From Strongs H1299; lightning; by analogy a gleam; concretely a flashing sword: – bright, glitter (-ing, sword), lightning. (Strongs Hebrew word H1300 baraq baw-rawk')
Barak 'O'bamah, The use of bamah is used to refer to the "heights" of Heaven.
bamah – Biblical definition:
From an unused root (meaning to be high); an elevation: – height, high place, wave. (Strongs Hebrew word H1116 bamah baw-maw')
The day following the election of Barack Obama (11/04/08), the winning pick 3 lotto numbers in Illinois (Obama's home state) for 11/5/08 were 666.
Obama was a U.S. senator for Illinois, and his zip code was 60606.
Seek Jesus while He may be found...repent, confess and forsake your sins and trust in the savior! Jesus says we must be born again by His Holy Spirit to enter the kingdom of God...God bless!
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