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Defector: Shadowy organization, not Kim Jong Un, controls North Korea

May 8th, 2014
02:28 PM ET

By Mick Krever, CNN

Who controls the Hermit Kingdom?

According to a North Korean defector – a former regime insider who was one of Kim Jong Il’s favorite poet-propagandists – it is not the 31-year-old dictator Kim Jong Un.

“When Kim Jong Il died and Kim Jong Un succeeded him, people saw the transfer of power from father to son,” Jang Jin-Sung told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour in London. “What they did not see also was what happened to the apparatus of the totalitarian system that supported the rule of Kim Jong Il.”

That apparatus, Jang said, is the Organization and Guidance Department, or OGD – it was Kim Jong Il’s education as he rose through the ranks, and was full of his university friends.

It is an “old-boy’s network” made into a massive surveillance organization.

“Kim Jong Il had the OGD as his old boys' network,” Jang told Amanpour. “Kim Jong-un may have friends in his Swiss school, but he has no one inside North Korea.”

Jang is the author of a new book, "Dear Leader: Poet, Spy, Escapee – A Look Inside North Korea."

“After the execution of Jang Song Thaek [Kim Jong Un’s uncle], he has become an orphan – not just in terms of family connections, but in terms of politics.”

“He's a political orphan.”

Precious little is known about Kim Jong Un, who inherited the leadership of North Korea after his father’s death in 2011.

Since that time, Jang said, Kim Jong Un has had to rely on his father’s “old-boys network” to get anything done.

But because that group does not respect the younger Kim, who was educated in Switzerland, the way it did his father, Kim Jong Un has become nothing more than the symbolic head of North Korea.

Defector: I saw Kim Jong Il as 'divine'

Meeting Kim

“Until the day I met Kim Jong Il,” Jang says, “I truly considered him divine, as someone more holy, like a sage – someone to be revered, someone who was better than us, who was sacrificing his own life for the people.”

So effective was the regime propaganda machine, he told Amanpour, that he did not even believe that Kim the elder used the toilet.

But Jang, a poet, caught the dictator’s eye, and was invited for a private audience with him.

“The man I saw standing in front of me was a man, he was a human being. He was not a holy man; he was not a saint; he was not a god. He was a man just like me, who did use the toilet.”

In propaganda, Kim had used “perfectly composed, flowery language,” Jang said, and was deeply reverential of “the people.”

“But when I met him, he just spoke in slang like in a kind of commanding colloquial, working-class slang, even to his most senior men.”

“And that was shocking to me.”

He even, Jang told Amanpour, wore shoes to boost his height.

Defector lifts curtain on North Korea

Shattering the myth

Once a North Korean has been admitted into the dictator’s inner circle, Jang said – “after having spent more than twenty minutes with him behind closed doors, at his personal request” – the leader’s “divinity” gets transferred onto that person.

“You become immune from all prosecution, all harm. You’re protected by his divinity.”

From that highest perch of North Korean society, Jang could clearly see for the first time all the lies he had been told.

The truth became even starker when he went back to visit his hometown of Sairwon, in the southwest of the country.

“That was when I really witnessed the devastating effects of the famine. That's where I saw the corpses in the station area just piling up and being taken away.”

As many as 3.5 million people are estimated to have died during North Korea's severe famine of the 1990s, according to the South Korean NGO Good Friends Center for Peace, Human Rights, and Refugees. (Official North Korean numbers estimate that 220,000 people died.)

It is also, he told Amanpour, where he saw a public execution.

“It is not classified as a punishment in response to a crime. It's considered a method of moral education, of building up society's standards of morality. So that's why these executions happen in public places, such as market squares, where people watch it.”

“It becomes a theater.”

A decade ago Jang decided to flee the country. Not even his family knew he was planning to leave.

Had he told them, he told Amanpour, their innocence would have been compromised, and they would have been vulnerable to the wrath of the state security service.

Cracking the regime

The most closed country on earth continues to fascinate the world, and among the most discussed questions is if, and how, the brutal regime could fall.

“Currently, there are two classes in North Korea locked in battle with each other,” Jang said.

“One I will call the loyal class. This is the class that is invested, that has a stake in this continuation of the status quo, of oppression and surveillance and control.”

“The other class are the market classes,” he said. “Their livelihoods are not sustained by the system, but actually oppressed by it.”

Earlier this year, a PBS Frontline documentary featured stunning footage of ordinary North Koreans using free enterprise and challenging regime security officers.

North Koreans, the documentary showed, are increasingly exposed to the outside world, through smuggled DVDs and USB sticks containing Western and South Korean movies and TV shows.

“In the past, there was only one thing to belong to, one thing that sustained you, one thing that kept your family going…loyalty to the cult of Kim.”

“But now people have realized finally, after the famine, that it is not loyalty that feeds them. It is money. It is work. It is owning something. It's individual property that feeds one.”

“So loyalty to Kim Il Sung” – Kim Jong Un’s grandfather – “has been trumped by, let's say, the portrait of Washington on a U.S. dollar note.”

Change in North Korea will not come, Jang said, by negotiating with the regime. It will come through knowledge.

“Truth will set North Korea free. The people will set North Korea free. The erosion of control will set North Korea free, not engagement with the regime.”

Filed under:  Christiane Amanpour • Latest Episode • North Korea
soundoff (88 Responses)
  1. Tot

    Why should any of this come as a surprise to anyone? Dictators (i.e. the front faces of terror) are always backed by a shadowy group that supports (and partially controls, and shares) their grip on power. No dictator alone could ever enslave an entire nation; no matter how charismatic, bloodthirsty, or even popular. Nothing new here, either!

    May 8, 2014 at 5:39 pm | Reply
    • ontologix

      You are right, in principle. But some dictators, like Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler, 'Franco and Mao are extremely powerful, expecially when they established their own system of terror. Baby Kim formally took over an existing system his grandfather had created. The shadowy group behind him needed a frontman to keep the people at bay. NK is a communist monarchy.

      May 9, 2014 at 12:47 am | Reply
      • mohammed Qutubuddin

        Defector: Shadowy organization, not POPE, controls VATICAN

        May 9, 2014 at 3:04 am |
      • RFalls

        "NK is a communist monarchy" Come on that gives communism a bad name. North Korea is no more communist than South Korea! It is a dictatorship or a Oligarchy.

        May 9, 2014 at 7:36 am |
      • katie08

        wow,truth-holder,i have a pic: oh,look those people, they are living in disaster,they are covered by lies, they have no food ,no water, no rights, no truth, what a pitty! so, why do not save them.why are you just sitting in you comfortable room, drinking you delicious tea, typing you words on you keyboard?! do it do, not say it ,say it, everybody could, just do it! man!

        May 9, 2014 at 10:59 pm |
      • Brett

        North Korea is hardly communist. No one seems to even know what that word means anymore, anyways.

        North Korea is more similar to an extension of the Joseon Dynasty with a ruling/royal family and bureaucrats running the show in a famine-ridden country with no ties to the outside.

        Fitting, that North Korea still calls itself "Joseon".

        May 10, 2014 at 10:38 am |
      • Thomas

        NK calls itself juche

        May 11, 2014 at 2:41 pm |
    • mohammed Qutubuddin

      Defector: Shadowy organization, not POPE, controls VATICAN

      May 9, 2014 at 3:04 am | Reply
      • Frankluche


        May 9, 2014 at 5:43 am |
      • katie08

        sir ,please give them hope,do it, koushui war, it means nothing,just like Obama,talking is more important than doing.

        May 9, 2014 at 11:01 pm |
      • deixoembranco

        Shadowy organizations run the entire world. We are all slaves.

        May 20, 2014 at 11:11 am |
    • yhp

      It would be a surprise to most of the people in N. Korea.

      May 9, 2014 at 3:22 am | Reply
      • Perrin Rynning

        Which, of course, is the entire point of the cult of personality set up around the young fellow. Consider the most rabidly loyal adherents to any religion you care to name. Such people do not, as a general rule, rebel against the public face of that religion. North Korea simply created it "artificially" and positioned the young fellow as the object of that mindless devotion. Hence, the "faithful" accept whatever comes out of Big Brother's mouth, and those who question are labeled "heretic" or "infidel". To the inner circle, it is not enough (or too difficult) to set up a system that is intellectually impregnable; they have enslaved their population's hearts and minds.

        May 9, 2014 at 6:01 am |
    • katie08

      yes yes, the same words, but,please leave your room, leave your keyboard, we have KEYBOARD POLITICIANS everywhere. do it ,my dear, just saying it means nothing, cursing can not killing, save them,KEYBOARD POLITICIAN.

      May 9, 2014 at 11:07 pm | Reply
    • Frances

      Shadow government? Tyranny? Sound familiar????

      May 9, 2014 at 11:15 pm | Reply
  2. FrParlentAuxFr

    It is not the dollar that Asians look up to, but Gold bars.

    May 8, 2014 at 5:46 pm | Reply
    • Johnny

      Modern mining technics can get you as much gold you want. You want 1 million ouces ? NO PROBLEM A billion ? NO PROBLEM ! You lust for 1 TRILLION ouces ? here you have it ! They can crush an entire mountain in 2 days to milk billions of ouces. That's why the prices is tumbling ! ITS NOT RARE ANYMORE ! HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT ?

      May 8, 2014 at 6:39 pm | Reply
      • Smith

        This is exactly true about the US dollar not gold. Print a mountain, as much as you want.

        May 9, 2014 at 12:07 am |
      • SZF

        "They can crush an entire mountain in 2 days to milk billions of ouces." – that's so much wrong in such a short sentence.

        In all of human history we've only dug up around 170,000 tons of the stuff – around 5.4 billion ounces. Even in 2013 we only managed 2,700 tons GLOBALLY, with no country producing more than 420 tons.

        As for demolishing an've been watching too many superhero flicks.

        May 9, 2014 at 1:59 am |
      • Brian

        you can mine 1 trillion tons of gold per hour but that doesnt change the fact that there is a limited supply of it on earth

        May 9, 2014 at 3:08 am |
      • Perrin Rynning

        I'm going to have to ask for your sources, on this one. Producing millions of ounces of gold every year? I don't think so.

        May 9, 2014 at 6:02 am |
  3. Joe

    This guy is obviously not a North Korean because he's too chubby. I have been reliably informed by CNN in the past the North Koreans are starving.

    May 8, 2014 at 6:15 pm | Reply
    • 17danielb

      Don't be stupid, not all of them are fat. If you eat carbohydrates, which most poor people at, such as rice (which is a regular food in North Korea), you will maintain a normal weight. Also, this man has lived for quite some time outside of North Korea, so he has obviously increased his weight. Duh dont be so ignorant and stupid.

      May 8, 2014 at 6:33 pm | Reply
      • Joe

        I am not ignorant. I get up-to-date information from CNN every day. But what you say does make sense. The starving North Koreans eat rice and get fat. This causes them to wear high heels because they are fat moma's boys.

        May 8, 2014 at 6:45 pm |
    • jdoe

      I agree he's totally wrong. Kin Jong Il actually never uses the toilet.

      May 8, 2014 at 8:01 pm | Reply
      • Reality Check

        Probably because he is now Kim Jong Dead

        May 9, 2014 at 7:58 am |
    • faster

      It's OBVIOUS to you that he can't be a North Korean? Shows how well you think.

      You seem to have forgotten that he defected to the States ten years ago. Even Americans can get chubby in far less time than that!

      You can bet he looks well fed, and that he makes sure he IS well fed. He's probably known hunger – the real thing – in his life somewhere along the line. If you've known real hunger, food gains a huge importance that it does not have for people who've never known a hungry day.

      Maybe next time you should LISTEN a little better? Your comment just put a whole omelet on your face. Try to not repeat it.

      May 8, 2014 at 10:53 pm | Reply
    • TanglinSing

      Read the article. He left North Korea 10 years (a decade) ago!

      May 8, 2014 at 11:32 pm | Reply
    • Leann

      He also doesn't have one of the official North Korean haircuts. The one he has was outlawed back in 1974 so nobody from North Korea would even know that it existed. They have one of only 7 official haircuts. They used to have about 12.

      May 8, 2014 at 11:50 pm | Reply
    • Shish Yakoo

      "This guy is obviously not a North Korean because he's too chubby." Omigod! Then he must be Hungarian!

      May 9, 2014 at 10:15 am | Reply

    so he really knows f#$k all, doesnt he? he left 10 years ago. he wasnt even around when Kim Jong Un took control.
    How about so real news cnn? nah, forget, switching to bbc

    May 8, 2014 at 6:18 pm | Reply
    • scott anderson

      Yeah, I have to agree – between a book he's pushing with content ten years not-new and the fact he actually believed Kim Jong-il did not produce human waste from his bowels and bladder sort of leaves me with a grave concern for both his sense of critical analysis and his motive.

      May 9, 2014 at 6:13 am | Reply
    • Albert

      So he knows nothing because he hasn't been home in 10 yrs!? Ridiculous on multiple levels.

      May 9, 2014 at 2:50 pm | Reply
  5. sailphi

    Gaining knowledge, gives you power. Curtailing other peoples knowledge, gets you power. This is true, whether talking about North Korea, Russia, China, some little dictatorial state, or the USA.

    May 8, 2014 at 7:24 pm | Reply
  6. eyeonukraine

    Well this guy is an idiot himself. To believe that a dude would not need to pee because what, he is divine? If he believed that then he deserved to be whateverhisname's slave, seriously. As to his description of what is happening inside N Korea now, well, I will take it with a grain of salt. Time will tell who is in control and what will happen.

    May 8, 2014 at 7:29 pm | Reply
    • NorthVanCan

      Do you believe Jesus was born of a virgin?

      May 8, 2014 at 7:57 pm | Reply
      • vin

        not difficult – the bible clearly states that mary was a virgen/maiden.if a person believes in a almighty creator surly it is possible for him to implant life into a human for it to grow. human doctors do it all the time.

        May 9, 2014 at 3:26 am |
    • cjacja

      Lots of people believe things that to outsiders seem nuts. Like every religion but your is whacky. Christianity and Islam both are less likely than a leader who is divine.

      The guy in the story is also a poet and we might think he is speaking figuratively and did not literally believe it. I'm guessing he is more sophisticated them many who comment here (including myself) and he is speaking metaphorically

      May 8, 2014 at 8:30 pm | Reply
    • Rodry

      You are the idiot or a stupid who do not comprehend and sustain the info they just provided on the article. Hey dummy can't you see they have a huge propaganda machine to brain wash north koreans from their infancy into believing the ruler is a god. And they do it well. !!

      May 8, 2014 at 9:32 pm | Reply
      • Albert

        Precisely Rodry. most Christians these people have been indoctrinated since birth.

        May 9, 2014 at 2:54 pm |
    • deixoembranco

      You call him an idiot but did you really understand his metaphor? Reserve the word idiot to yourself.

      May 20, 2014 at 11:18 am | Reply
  7. brunocesar96

    If he doesn't say this he'd probably be killed or forced to work as a slave.

    May 8, 2014 at 8:01 pm | Reply
  8. DrEH

    This is not surprising and I am in full agreement with the stated path to the end of the nightmare that is N. Korea. The best weapons that undermined the Soviet Union were; Levi's, Coca Cola and Rock esp irreverent punk. It is the clamour and desire of the masses that topple disconnected regimes. Bombs and bullets and sanctions are a waste of time. This time the weapons of choice will be satirical you-tube videos and exposure to the lifestyle in the west.

    May 8, 2014 at 8:16 pm | Reply
  9. cjacja

    I had posted this here many times: Always when you see the younger Kim we see a group of older men standing in back as if Kim were pushed to the front. Kim always is shown looking away into the distance with these men in back of him. Then look at photos of REAL leaders. They are always facing someone, talking to some one or walking side by side with others never out in front alone.

    Have you ever led a group? Every time I have I stand facing them, never facing in the same direction they are facing.

    Kim's photos all have this "leader" faint the same direction as the group he leads. It looks very "fake"

    I can imagine he has been pushed to the front and the old med are holding a (figurative) gun to his back.

    May 8, 2014 at 8:24 pm | Reply
  10. audu

    this is the total opposite of what a communist nation state or communism is all about and all the communists and supporters of north Korea who do not realize that are idiots

    May 8, 2014 at 8:51 pm | Reply
  11. sblue

    This guy said nothing useful. Just the same babble that he thinks the western audience loves to hear. People from dictatorship all learned this survival skill to choose what to say. The info from him is of no executable value. If Kim is the orphan, then who is the guardian? Who should we deal with? I think this is just his informed logic plus some wild imagination like any TV fans.

    May 8, 2014 at 8:58 pm | Reply
    • moon cheol gi

      I think you know nothing about the history of korean peninsular and the mordern history of korea.
      And I guess you could not understand the stream of korean history since the korean war in 1950~1953 happened by North Korea. You have to view the all incident which NK bring about And ithey mean.
      Please take into account many things before doing something. thank sir

      May 14, 2014 at 2:08 am | Reply
  12. Hannibal Lecter

    It's like that in many ways in many situation. It's the awakening of the mind and the spirit that will give us freedom.

    May 8, 2014 at 9:11 pm | Reply
  13. ontologix

    So North Korea is not run by Baby Kim. Fair enough. Under W. the US was not run by the President, but by a shadow group of evangelical fundamentalists, anti-communist and anti-islamist crusaders, and banksters.

    May 8, 2014 at 10:08 pm | Reply
  14. MW

    This guy's book will still sell massively and make him rich. His poor family members were probably tortured or executed. Normally this is quite an effective way to stop N.Koreas from sneaking away and leaking information – concern for the family they would leave behind.
    But not this guy – he is clearly a determined traitor – not so much to N. Korea as to his own family. "preserving their innocence" was such a poor excuse. If his family had any idea he was planning escape, he would not have succeeded because they would know the consequence to themselves once his was gone.

    May 8, 2014 at 10:14 pm | Reply
  15. William

    Christiane, why isn't this question asked?
    If Kim Jun Un is truly NK army's commander, can he order them to kill the network?
    Whoever controls the NK army controls the country. Who is in control of the army?

    May 8, 2014 at 10:25 pm | Reply
    • Joe

      Probably the head hermit.

      May 9, 2014 at 6:15 am | Reply
    • deixoembranco

      I think Kim Jun Un is a prisoner of this regime– nothing more than puppet.

      May 20, 2014 at 11:21 am | Reply
  16. faster

    This guy is very believable and likable. I can only hope his family isn't made to suffer, but they probably are and have been. They may not even be alive any more. So I feel very sorry for him, especially because he has no way of EVER knowing. That's GOT to hurt. Real bad.

    He speaks clearly and with lucidity. Wouldn't it be great if ALL Koreans, north and south, could learn to be like him? Shoot, it'd be great for ALL people to learn that.

    He's right, too. If the upper crust cared nothing for the famine, the people themselves DID. And that's when they learned that this "divine" system cares nothing for them. By letting its own people starve, the regime has issued its own death warrant. The people who saw its effects will NEVER forget it.

    While it is usually wrong for other countries to step in, even to fix problems as heinous as those in N. Korea, it is indeed good to know that the PEOPLE of N. Korea will very likely take care of matters for themselves. It'll probably take many more years, but what with the new knowledge they're acquiring through smuggled data and information, it is sure to happen, and they WILL overthrow the regime. That's the best way for it to happen.

    What worries me is what would come next. None of these people is fit to live in democracy. It's not their fault, of course. ALL they've ever known was the regime and a few snippets of information smuggled in to them. Even while hating the regime, though, they are still in a culture that is a product of that regime.

    This bodes very ill for any prospect of them learning to rule themselves in a civil fashion. Unless they ask for external help – and really MEAN it – they'll probably just devolve into yet another Kim-style dynastic dictatorship.

    I want to hope – and to dream, on their behalf – that they will somehow find a way to avoid that fate.

    This gentleman is a prime example of just how fine, how wonderful, the N. Koreans COULD be, if only they decided to settle for nothing less.

    May 8, 2014 at 10:45 pm | Reply
    • Albert

      Sadly Faster in countries like this one dictator is usually overthrown for a new one. Seldom do the leaders of these peoples movements relinquish power, it's just a trade off for a more palatable dictator.

      May 9, 2014 at 2:59 pm | Reply
  17. Anuj

    "If there is hope, it lies in the proles" – George Orwell, from "1984"

    May 8, 2014 at 11:25 pm | Reply
    • katie08

      it sounds like;"everybody should die one day",it's philosophy,man,meaning is nothing,

      May 9, 2014 at 10:46 pm | Reply
  18. Bifford

    This makes sense and I had suspected this. You can't just pull an heir to the throne out of nowhere and expect him to wield the same influence as his predecessor. In the past, kings made sure their maturing heirs were visible and making connections to the network of elites who ran the country.

    May 9, 2014 at 1:33 am | Reply
  19. Adam Poznanski

    Interesting, but why doesn't he even takes into consideration, that China and Russia are the true masters controlling their 'human experiment of total control' – known as North Korea? Anyhow, the toilet thing is almost funny....

    May 9, 2014 at 2:37 am | Reply
    • desertvoice

      Interesting thought. I see more plausibility in Russia and China being the real masters of King Jong Un. Russia, for instance often sends her children to be educated in North Korea. And North Korea have benn doing the same since the early fifties. This shows some deep familiar links between these three countries ...

      May 9, 2014 at 5:52 pm | Reply
    • katie08

      may i ask one qustion,how do you know that thing? form what? from where? tell me, please.

      May 9, 2014 at 10:44 pm | Reply
  20. Dennis85

    Hail Hydra!

    May 9, 2014 at 5:33 am | Reply
  21. Dr Mike

    If the theory that there is a network of his fathers friends calling the shots, it explains the execution of his uncle, perhaps he was too powerful and also killing him,isolates the boy.

    May 9, 2014 at 6:17 am | Reply
  22. geopolitical perspective

    Bogus. Jung-burger is running NK. That's why his belly button is getting bigger.

    May 9, 2014 at 1:49 pm | Reply
  23. dotmafia

    A shadow group also runs the United States of America. What's the difference? None as far as I can tell.

    May 9, 2014 at 10:35 pm | Reply
  24. binlatun

    I am not interested in politics, it rather like a game with winner and loser, with ambition and scheme

    May 9, 2014 at 10:49 pm | Reply
  25. nibiro

    DENNIS Should be doing more visit to the north Korea to just to look . crazy

    May 9, 2014 at 10:59 pm | Reply
  26. nibiro

    what if her kills rodam whats next ??

    May 9, 2014 at 11:24 pm | Reply
  27. nibiro

    madman on US HANDS . Me know you yeah so maybe make date with KIM JONG ILL . beep

    May 9, 2014 at 11:27 pm | Reply
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    May 9, 2014 at 11:30 pm | Reply
  29. B Sacks

    More rubbish news dug up like a dragnet on the ocean floor gather old rotted ship wreckage material. CNN is rubbish and will create any fake news to fill it's Website up.

    CNN = Comedy News Network

    May 10, 2014 at 12:57 am | Reply
    • E Burns

      Really, genius? So why are you clicking-through to read the article?

      May 10, 2014 at 10:04 am | Reply
  30. JJ

    Really? And how long did it take you people to figure this out? It's the same as in Lybia, in Russia and many other countries. D-oh.

    May 10, 2014 at 1:22 am | Reply
  31. h.john

    thats would nt be a surprise .. who runs the state .. nor mr . obi neither the WH .
    obi abd otger staff just employee for those with money n power.

    May 10, 2014 at 1:45 am | Reply
  32. Alex Morgan

    Do not listen to Amanpour subjects because she tends to put words in guests mouth; and injects her own agenda in every discussion. She is one of CNN blow horns with a crusade agenda, anti-muslim; anti-korea, anti Russia...just monkey wearing makeup, a puppet who try 2 brainwashe audience into her CIA bosses ideas...

    May 10, 2014 at 5:59 am | Reply

    how the hell is killing amoral lesson surely?

    May 10, 2014 at 9:14 am | Reply
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    May 10, 2014 at 7:38 pm | Reply
  35. Really

    I saw the show and I believe that person wouldn't be allowed to shine Kims shoes.
    He has no clue what he's talking about.

    May 11, 2014 at 11:49 am | Reply
  36. Edward R

    The same type of shadow government that backs the NK government backs each and every western government.

    Don't kid yourself...

    May 11, 2014 at 1:32 pm | Reply
  37. Derek

    Russia runs North Korea along with China

    May 11, 2014 at 5:12 pm | Reply
  38. ddm11

    I agree he is just a figurehead, allowed to clown around to distract observers. Just a symbolic head of North Korea. The power is men in the secret system that parades noisy Kim Jong Un to keep the people and other nations fooled. He probably doesn't even realize it himself.

    May 22, 2014 at 12:35 pm | Reply
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