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Russia: It’s decision time ‘for everybody’
By Mick Krever, CNN
The downing of MH17 was indeed a "game-changer" as many Western leaders have called it, Vladimir Chizhov, Russian ambassador to the EU, told CNN's Christiane Amanpour on Tuesday.
"I agree it's a game-changer," he said. "It should serve as a wake-up call for everybody to stop instigating violence, stop supporting the Ukrainian government in its military campaign against civilians."
In the past 24 hours, Russian President Vladimir Putin has taken tentative steps to quell the mounting public outrage over the botched recovery and investigation of the MH17 crash site in eastern Ukraine.
Nonetheless, Putin has said that in fact Ukraine is at least indirectly to blame for the downing of the civilian airplane, because, he alleges, of its continuing offensive against pro-Russian separatists.
"I think it's a time of decision for everybody, including those Western countries that have been supporting Ukraine," Chizhov said.
"If we talk about influence, I think influence on the Kiev government side from the West should really increase. As far as Russia's influence on the people in eastern Ukraine, you can easily see that from public statements made by President Putin over the last few days."
Putin today promised to use his sway on the separatists.
"I can assure that it is in the national interests of Russia to see this conflict end as soon as possible," Chizhov said. "And we never thought it would serve any interest to prolong it or exacerbate it."
Meanwhile, the ambassador said that no one had produced any convincing evidence that pro-Russian rebels, or indeed Russia, had a role in the attack.
Ukraine, he said, has concentrated on "producing fake evidence."
"In the meantime, the United States government has said that it has mounting evidence pointing to what they - to those whom they call rebels or separatists, but have yet to produce any piece, any tangible piece of evidence."
Meanwhile, Russian Army Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov suggested a Ukrainian jet fighter might have shot the plane down.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko rejected that in an exclusive interview with Amanpour, saying that all Ukrainian aircraft were on the ground at the time.
"The Russian Defense Ministry did not blame actually anybody. But it produced hard evidence showing that some questions need to be answered by the Ukrainian authorities, which they have failed to do so far."
"So in the lack of any other evidence which would point to the contrary, I think the strongest evidence so far is the one produced by the Russian minister of defense."
READ MORE: Ukraine opens criminal cases against Russian minister, businessman
@camanpour on Twitter
He still denies his countries involvement in the downing of a civilian plane.
What angers me most is when he mentioned the Russian separatist as " civilians".. civilians don't have sophisticated weaponry that has a capability to down any type of aircraft.
Wake up Mr. Ambassador! You are being puppetized by your President.
Where did he say that separatists are civilians? He said that the Ukraiian government should stop its military campaign against civillians. Certainly CNN doesn't show you that the city of Donetsk which is currently under control of the rebels has almost one million inhabitants and still is indiscriminatory shelled by the Ukrainian army every day.
You mean the Ukranian military campaign to protect is sovereign soil from Russian financed and militarily backed rebels... right. 🙂
The campaign isn't against civilians though. It is against terrorists and rebels. The fact that those rebels hide behind women and children is the reason that civilians are dying. It is impossible to fight cowards like that without civilians dying, in fact the rebels WANT civilians to die because they can use their deaths to push their own agenda.
Same thing that Hamas and Muslim terrorists do.
For instance, look at how Russia handled Chechnya. Russia killed 200,000 civilians, including 20,000 children with their bombs. One report showed that 1 out of every 5 bombs/mortars dropped in Chechnya was white phosphorous.
Or look at the Moscow theater terrorist action. When the Russian forces attempted a rescue, they accidentally killed many of the civilians in the process. These forces did not want to kill the civilians, but they had to take action because of the terrorists. Do you blame the forces? No, because the terrorists are the ones who created the situation, the terrorists are the ones who put the civilians in harms way.
Leaving the rebels and terrorists alone will not solve the situation. It is Ukrainian land and they offered to decentralize power to placate the rebels. However, the rebels are controlled by Russia and they have said only independence will be negotiated. They can save the civilians at any points by agreeing to compromise and laying down their arms. However they care more about their own selfish agenda. They want power and money.
I'm sure totally sure what I saw in the interview is correct. Please watch it again so you will know word by word what the ambassador had said.
How quickly and smoothly now behaved regulators airline industry and the airlines themselves, actually is their direct admission of guilt for the death of people on board MH17
Ukrainian authorities have not closed the airspace. A European airlines and regulators thoughtlessly allowed planes there. That's true killer – airlines, regulators and authorities of Ukraine controlled by the United States. They feel their absolute blame for what happened!
John Conner, for a guy with an English sounding name, you sure are using a lot of Engrish to try and pass the blame around. I wonder why that is...
"in fact the rebels WANT civilians to die because they can use their deaths to push their own agenda."
you mean the rebels were the ppl who killed thousand of civilians in Kiev, put their own president up and now they bomb civilians/rebels in eastern ukraine?
hm, ill go do a prayer and after that your family will most likely die. You have been cursed
Putin,s gangsters like himself have no human dignity nor courage that is why they always stay behind women and kids, hide in schools and kindergartens, shoot from hospitals. They conquered Donetsk and put their Putin,s weaponry on the roofs of civil buildings, mined Arena stadium, blasted bridges and mined kids,courts. Putin is accountable for all that and he will be soon in hell once his jerks are back to moscow
I think everybody's dirty.
1. militia are of civil people. most of them are native UA citizens just mostly speaking russian
2. they have their own free and GOOD will to show their desires and wishes not to live under CRIME govt. which took power via armed coup.
3. Kiew still didn't answer 10 inconveniant qustions by Deputy defence mininster Antonov.
From the very beginning this govt is illegal because came to power by revolution and many and many peaceful victins. MH17 is just one of chains of this crime.
Ukraine has the right to protect it's sovereignty...U.S would do the same or any other country. What right do you have to criticize Ukrainian government over civilian casualties if Ukrainian military doesn't even have precision weapons? U don't want to see civilians die...go ahead provide than Ukrainian military with precision weapons.
This interview is entertaining. There are no facts, no proof and apparently nobody want's to wait to hear what the investigation have to say. Anamanpour saying that there's propaganda from the Russian media admits that there are other standpoints people are considering and not everyone listens to CNN corporate propaganda, which is every bit as real as Russian propaganda. Without the necessary proof and result of the investigations, most western media is undertaking a witch hunt that's unbecoming to the self-proclaimed leaders of the freedom of press.
Even a fool would know that Russia is in a better place than anyone to show where the missile was fired from due to the technology they have on their own borders. And a monkey would be able to work out why they are not providing the evidence they have.
mark,
Russa HAS provided the evidence yesterday...
you can thank your western media for hiding the press conference held by Russian officials.
everything was presented: radar data and satellite photos.
there was Ukrainian jet fighter within 3KM of Mh17
there were 3 Ukranian Buk stations fully operational with radars active right under the Mh17... what were they aiming at since rebels don't have air force?!? that's something for Ukraine to answer...
I would give that advice to your Russian ambassador, Putin, and your idiotic Defense Ministry.
"Russian Army Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov suggested a Ukrainian jet fighter might have shot the plane down."
Interestingly today on Russian TV streamed on youtube this canard is now being gingerly walked back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L13uJ9nhTdE
“РБК: эксперт раскритиковал доклад минобороны РФ по крушению Boeing-777“
"RBK: An expert criticizes the report issued by the Defense Department of Russia.
1. The discussion rolls back the canard attributed to the Russian Defense Ministry that they had evidence that Ukraine’s plane shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17. Basically calls the Russian Defense Department "incompetent."
2. Also, a refreshing, unvarnished description by this Russian expert of the events following the 1 September 1983 downing of Korean Air Lines Flight 007. He describes the painful road the Soviet Union took, before finally admitting that they had shot the plane down.
How blind you are watching genocide but government which in big doubt would use word legit ...Why you can only blame and point Russians what about producing fake evidence to enter Iraq etc...Israeli soldiers are killing innocent Palestinians thanks to US support who is handing over tonnes of monies and military equipment to them .US has blood on its hand but this not counts .I know you are guardian of peace or maybe messenger of death ...
How can you be sure that they did Mark?! Though i am Dutch I find the possibility that Ukranian jet fighters downed the plane an interesting thought. As they said it's a game changer. One hell of a way to blame the Russians and get the rest of the west inclusing china on the Ukranian and US side.
" i am Dutch I find the possibility that Ukranian jet fighters downed the plane an interesting thought. As they said it's a game changer. One hell of a way to blame the Russians and get the rest of the west inclusing china on the Ukranian and US side."
It was Russia's intent to muddy the waters.
But today, surprisingly, on Russian TV streamed on YouTube a Russian military specialist called that suggestion stupid and the Defense ministry "incompetent."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L13uJ9nhTdE
“РБК: эксперт раскритиковал доклад минобороны РФ по крушению Boeing-777“
I think that the Russian terrorists did it. It's a hell of a way to focus attention on their "cause." You say, but they received negative publicity, I say publicity is publicity. Borodai could only have dreamed of the attention he received in the last five days. Did you notice that he had the envoy from Malaysia sign transfer papers using Borodai "Government" stationary.
Did you miss the fact that the west is supporting a sovereign nation?
'I'm Dutch' yeah right.
Do you think Ukrainian pilots would not be able to see that they shooting at civilian plane? Do you think Ukrainian pilots are retarded idiots of something?
There are civillians and there are fighters. That fighters have weapons doesn't allow Ukrainian government to kill civillians. CNN and most of the western media just don't show what happens in east Ukraininan cities and what people think about western hero Poroshenko. Only one small example from many of reportages from inside: https://news.vice.com/video/russian-roulette-dispatch-57
"Most of the western media just don't show what happens in east Ukraininan cities and what people think about western hero Poroshenko."
You fail to address the underlying cause, which is Putin's attack on Ukraine.
Eastern Ukrainian citizens like the rest of Ukraine lived peacefully until Putin's Russian terrorists overran parts of Ukraine. There were protests in Kiev against the then corrupt government controlled by Putin, but the rest of Ukrainian citizens continued to live their lives normally, and even now more than 90% of Ukrainian citizens in the rest of Ukraine live peacefully.
It is not at all clear that the damage inflicted in the video is caused by the Ukrainian forces. In fact, because Russian Live News is always there to record what happens, I would venture to say that it's the Russian terrorists who cause the damage to further their cause. Since citizens in the areas controlled by Putin's thugs only have access to Russian propaganda, why should anyone be surprised that they blame the new President who was not even elected until after Putin's terrorists arrived in Eastern Ukraine. As soon as Russia's terrorists leave Eastern Ukraine, and Crimea, the sooner citizens of those area can go back to a peaceful way of life.
Here is another point of view of how citizens in Eastern Ukraine feel after being rescued from Russian drunken thugs by the Ukrainian Army.
Voloshchenko Sergey @vsb2002
Славянск: Неудачное интервью
http://youtu.be/EJ0ipZ1RW84 за допомогою @YouTube
"Most of the western media just don't show what happens in east Ukraininan cities ......"
You fail to address the underlying cause, which is Putin's attack on Ukraine.
Eastern Ukrainian citizens like the rest of Ukraine lived peacefully until Putin's Russian terrorists overran parts of Ukraine. There were protests in Kiev against the then corrupt government controlled by Putin, but the rest of Ukrainian citizens continued to live their lives normally, and even now more than 90% of Ukrainian citizens in the rest of Ukraine live peacefully.
It is not at all clear that the damage inflicted in the video is caused by the Ukrainian forces. In fact, because Russian Live News is always there to record what happens, I would venture to say that it's the Russian terrorists who cause the damage to further their cause. Since citizens in the areas controlled by Putin's thugs only have access to Russian propaganda, why should anyone be surprised that they blame the new President who was not even elected until after Putin's terrorists arrived in Eastern Ukraine. As soon as Russia's terrorists leave Eastern Ukraine, and Crimea, the sooner citizens of those area can go back to a peaceful way of life.
Here is another point of view of how citizens in Eastern Ukraine feel after being rescued from Russian drunken thugs by the Ukrainian Army.
Voloshchenko Sergey @vsb2002
Славянск: Неудачное интервью
http://youtu.be/EJ0ipZ1RW84 за допомогою @YouTube
Mark. Every civilian taking arms in his hands automatically becomes a military man. Right. Guys have to defend their families or you want to deny them even this opportunity. They sent their families to Russia. 100 thousand of refuges by now. Thousands of Russian families accommodating refuges learned a lot about atrocities committed by Ukrainian Nazi Government. So Russians have first hand information. US just looking forward to get it's war. Let it have it. Russians are always ready to show a Bully it's corner. Sorry if it's a bit harsh. Deed not mean it. Have a nice day
Why fly through a war zone? surely losing one plane is bad enough.
So, does your train of thought apply to gun owners in the US once we get invaded?
It has all started when USA has organized a coup on 21st Fenruary this year to remove an elected government and replace it with a Nazi Government of Catholics and Israelis in an Orthodox country.
Exactly. The EU has been foolish to allow the US to influence it to meddle in Ukraine. Now they see the results of their actions. Russia will be forced T abandon arms treaties and rebuild its massive nuclear forces and space weaponry.
"It has all started when USA has organized a coup ."
How absurd - "it’s the fault of the US," the corrupt government that was stealing Ukraine and Ukrainians blind and was leading the country "Back to the USSR" is not to blame.
Students protested the decision not to sign the EU agreement, the idiot president's henchmen brutally attacked them and that led to more protests. Had the president guts enough to apologize for that incident, things might have turned out differently.
The Association of all Churches in Ukraine, including Jews, Muslims, Orthodox and Eastern Rite Catholics all support the current government. The only ones who don’t support the Ukrainian government are the fascist Russians who can't stand Poles, Jews, Chechen's, Georgians, Ukrainian, etc., and can't accept that Ukrainians are not and don't want to be assimilated into Russians, and their Supreme Leader– Putler – who has no respect for life or other people’s choices.
Is LJ talking about the Russians of the Svoboda's?
Is LJ talking about the Russians or the Svoboda's?
Very nice Russian propaganda
suggest you test your IQ and reading...
He is doing what Obama did to Syrian opposists
Still looking forward to Putin apologizing for his country's "military campaign against civilians" in Chechnya.
Oh wait, that will never happen because there are completely different standards applying to Ukraine and Russia governments.
You believe the Ukrainian President? He says that his aircraft on this day were not in the air, without confirmation. You refuse to believe Russia with the revelations of the Ukrainian army. Delirium
Ukraine its right, the ones lying it's Russia, Putin...and government as well Russians terrorist.!
I agreed with you,Rebels do not want peace, Putin, and Russian government cannot allow peace, they must continue fighting until they accomplished Russia's goals...invade and take over Ukraine, just as they did with Crimea. World powers should not allow this to happen, they must stop Putin and rebels....either by military means or economic and military sanctions. We all know, the world knows Russia is involve and responsible for the Malaysia jet shot down, Russians terrorist will not take such actions without the Kremlin approval.....Putin's and government.
Great UN by imposing more sanctions on Russia, but it's not enough. Sanctions must be severe that will make Russia, and Russia terrorist to stop this aggression and killing of innocent people. Russia must stop this war in Ukraine, must stop supporting and providing light and heavy weapons to Russian terrorist. France must stop the sale of Mistral warships to Russia,if does not stop....France should be blame for deaths of more innocents. Russia may use the Mistral warships against Ukraine, UN, NATO and allies. France must stop this stupidity warships to Russia. UN, NATO, EU, UK, US and allies must pressed France, must stop the sale of warships to Russia. Putin, Russians terrorist have already killed plenty of innocents, not to mentioned the Malaysia's innocent killed by Russia shooting down the jet. How long more does world powers, EU, UN and international community must wait to take severe actions military and economic against Russia, how many more people they are waiting to be kill so they can act against Russia? What is the purposed of those Russian terrorist, its Russia expansion? Does the world powers and international community...believe Russia's lies, have they learned anything from Russia's news reporter who resigned because Russian government ask them to lie to the public? how much more can we take from Russia? I am sorry for the lost of life of those innocents killed, this would not have happened if Putin, Russia government had not cooperate with rebels in shooting down the Malaysia's plane. God bless the whole world.
Fascist puppet Poroshenko's governemnt is BOMBING and killing own population – but western media accept it because he is a puppet:
Separatist do not need Poroshenko and western satanists.
Where are "humanitarian bombing" for to help people gain freedom like in Kosovo? Milosevic was not US puppet. Gaddafi either
Hypokrites!
I'd give Obama as much credibility as the Putin. I do not know why this tragedy has to politicised. Certainly MH was ill advised to go through the East Ukraine war zone and I doubt if anyone at all will want to shoot down another MH plane. If I were St. Peter I'd give Obama a few mortal sins in being callous enough to point fingers at Russia gloatingly after so many lives were lost.
The proper thing to do is to ensure that any other recoverable body is recovered, start an unbiased investigation and for everyone to await the results. If you ask me the most responsible party is MH for ignoring the inherent risk in flying through a war zone, then the Ukrainian air controllers and ICAO for not closing the airspace from civilian flight.
I have that kind of weaponry. US sold it too me.
Neither did the US after downing Iran's airliner.. your point?
After all the fake evidences (videos and conversations), now the separatists hide behind civilians?, and that is why Ukrainian military are killing hundred of civilians? this propaganda is unbelievable, Ukraine began this anti-Russian policy before their illegitimate government, so what's the problem if some cities don't agree with the illegitimate government?, leave the people live in peace Ukrainians terrorists. There are many clear videos when Ukrainian soldiers kill unarmed civilians.
Sure you mind provide those videos? You do realize the only reason why there are civilian casualties is because Ukrainian military doesn't have precision weapons unlike U.S. Even U.S kills civilians in wars even though U.S military has high tech and precision weapons..
Freedom and Democracy have been attacked.
Ukrainians have lost their lives from the start of this conflict in Ukraine for Freedom and Democracy.
Putin had authorized the use of weapons in Ukraine from Moscow, air on National TV.
Russian armed men with Helicopters, enter Ukrainian air space, air on National TV, while U.S. and The World watches.
Green Men from space enter Crimea, and send Ukrainian Soldiers packing. Crimea became part of Russia now, Putin Style, when Ukrainian presidential election pending.
Putin had indirectly and directly attacked Freedom and Democracy, as he campaign worldwide, and his action in Ukraine, with a double standard, meanwhile.
Obama, is waiting for proof in The White House Oval Office, and confirmation, that Russian, are involved in Ukraine then what, as Putin laugh.
While Ukrainians, weak, politically, financially and military, trying to defend Freedom and Democracy. The world including myself bleeds for the innocent victims from, MH17 as Russia claims no involvement.
Russian TV, Kept airing lies to its citizen, and fabrication, which I watch daily.
N.A.T.O. unresponsive Military, action against Putin had put us all in danger as Putin campaign against Freedom and Democracy, testing The World unity.
Putin will from his action continued his assault on Freedom and Democracy, so far in Ukraine hasn't stop.
Putin's continued action, helped escalation in Ukraine, lead the way for the downing of MH17.
Ambassador Samantha Power heavenly spoken words, are words to resurrect you from hell Putin, however she cannot get through your thick skull, defiant ways, she is your savior, make her a deal because not every day she try to save the devil from hell.
Now for those who thinks I dislike Russian, one of my favorite artist is Nikolai Baskov.
Hope someday Russian can have a true Democratic leader and understand the meaning of Freedom.
Methinks they doth protest too loudly...
Methinks westerners are murderers.
http://intermedicare.org/uploads/pics/1402611507_639337915_-_kopija_02.jpg
I'm hearing that is was confusion? Same excuse when we are surrounded by green glass parking lots. Same people with their finger on the nuclear triggers. They were confused. Right.
I especially like the idea posted that America crashed a plane filled with dead people, to make Russia look bad.
Montatna Trace, There was just a comment from rebels who found the wreckage site. Usually they have to deal with a lot of dead bodies in the East of Ukraine, mostly civilians, left over after their cities are shelled by Government forces. And the corpses they retrieve from the debries never smell that bad, usually it take some time before decomposition begins. That's why they just assumed that the bodies had been on the plane for some time before the plane was hit.
"America crashed a plane filled with dead people..."
Yes, the brightest of Putin's terrorists– Girkin/Strelkov, personal friend of the Moscow Patriarch Kirill, made that absurd claim. The claim that the dead are there because of the Ukrainian government is as absurd as their whole mission. These Putin terrorists don’t seem to understand that they and their Putler are the cause of all this bloodshed…. Somewhere I read that some of these terrorists style themselves as the Orthodox Army, or some such thing and they are on a historical mission to build The Third Rome—Russkii mir.
Why all the buz about this European problem in the American Media? Because the victims are white Europeans? What about all the black kids being assassinated by white cops in America? What about the 1 million of black americans rotting in jails in America?
Thanks russian troll!
go back to school, ignorant american. every educated european knows that trolls live only in norway.
Every time you read something you don't like you respond "it's a Russian troll". Get a hold of yourself, this isn't West Ukraine, this is the free world and we can freely talk, something unthinkable in Western Ukraine by now.
They would not be in jail if they'd behaved themselves. Like Trayvon, who'd be alive, if only he hadn't acted like a thug.
Come Lord Jesus, this world and peoples need your Devine help.
"What about the 1 million of black americans rotting in jails in America?"
Perhaps its because they have broken the law and committed a crime?
That's a good one: 'a European problem'. Are you really that ignorant? The world could have looked the other way when you guys tried to recover from Katrina, which was after all 'an American problem'. But did we? To some people the world ends at the US borders. I wish them strength
Most civilized people respect human life of whatever color. Unlike Russians who have a long history of exterminating pretty much anyone who is not Russian.
US have killed more non US, than Russia have killed non-Russians unless you count WW2, where Russia killed invaders.
A shameless inversion of the truth by Chizhov...
Truth??!!! Do you know the truth or you think that you know it? Only idiots think that they can get full truth from media about political questions! Media is just one more tool for manipulation. The most disgusting thing in this story that ordinary people die because of games of politics.
disgusting putin and rebel leader still denying their involvement. burn in hell.
Westerners are murderers who's puppets tortured the residents of Slaviansk for months and are now conducting ethnic cleansing there.
Only in the sick mind of the Russians and their handler Putler. Here is an interview from Slavyansk after it was liberated. The two citizens interviewed are extremely grateful that the Ukrainian government rescued them from Putler's drunk marauders.
Voloshchenko Sergey @vsb2002
Славянск: Неудачное интервью
http://youtu.be/EJ0ipZ1RW84 за допомогою @YouTube
BLOODYMIR PUTIN telling lies straight face........
Russian TV provided undeniable proof of who shot the plane down! Just go on you tube and watch:
/watch?v=vjUpRD6yMYg
Very smart AXA. Ukraine has a traffic control tower which guided the plane, why then to shoot it out of the sky??
Evidence from radar is clear that a rocket was launched and that plane you refer to never appeared on any radar. Evidence of the debris has now shown that it is consistent with a surface to air missile impact.
Stop citing Russian propaganda, it is sickening! It makes Russians even more hated in the rest of the world.
What I am waiting for is the "undeniable proof" from our government (USA) which shows where the SAM came from. My question is if it's so rock solid, then share it so we can get to the bottom of it once and for all. No matter what the other side will counter with their own assertions.
I am personally sick of Russia's lies.
You are not supposed to think, only to listen to your master.
Unlike your Russians who have to listen to your insane Putler, Amercans don't have a master that they have to listen to.
Great UN by imposing more sanctions on Russia, but it's not enough. Sanctions must be severe that will make Russia, and Russia terrorist to stop this aggression and killing of innocent people. Russia must stop this war in Ukraine, must stop supporting and providing light and heavy weapons to Russian terrorist. France must stop the sale of Mistral warships to Russia,if does not stop....France should be blame for deaths of more innocents. Russia may use the Mistral warships against Ukraine, UN, NATO and allies. France must stop this stupidity warships to Russia. UN, NATO, EU, UK, US and allies must pressed France, must stop the sale of warships to Russia. Putin, Russians terrorist have already killed plenty of innocents, not to mentioned the Malaysia's innocent killed by Russia shooting down the jet. How long more does world powers, EU, UN and international community must wait to take severe actions military and economic against Russia, how many more people they are waiting to be kill so they can act against Russia? What is the purposed of those Russian terrorist, its Russia expansion? Does the world powers and international community...believe Russia's lies, have they learned anything from Russia's news reporter who resigned because Russian government ask them to lie to the public? how much more can we take from Russia? I am sorry for the lost of life of those innocents killed, this would not have happened if Putin, Russia government had not cooperate with rebels in shooting down the Malaysia's plane. God bless the whole world.
Leave my country plz.
Stop occupation of Novorossia by Ukrainian nazis.
Please visit a psychiatrist, preferably somewhere not connected with Russia. Perhaps you can be cured of your delusions of RUSSIA, THE GREAT EMPIRE. The time for empires has past. The time for confusing the world with your propaganda and lies has also past.
About what peace plan Christiane Amanpour told here? The one which states that rebels must just give up and go away?
The "rebels" do not understand what is meant by negotiations. They should have accepted the cease fire and pulled in their Russian partner to help mediate. In place of that, they reject the plan outright and bloodshed continues. Read Ella's post below as if it's true, then perhaps you might want to change your opinion., How many of the ~1 Million inhabitants want war? How many are hell bent on separating from the Ukraine? Bet you it's a minuscule number while the majority are too afraid to protest. Those who have the power (i.e. weapons) decide for everyone. Up to a point, I am almost tempted to say that they are getting what they deserve as if they do not want to stand up to the few who are manipulating them, then the world can see the results.
Remember what Russia did to the "rebels" who wanted their states to no longer by part of the Russian federation. Not much different than what Ukraine is doing. So please... don't cast Russia as the innocent bystander here. It's all part of their master plan.
1) When side A tells side B to lay down weapons and to allow side A to come in and take the full control it can not be called a peace plan. Do you understand what "negotiations" mean?
2) "How many are hell bent on separating from the Ukraine?" – This is the main question. West said "doesn't matter, they don't have any right to decide their future" (as in Crimea) and didn't help to make fair OSCE observed referendum with a number of independent polls and so on. I mean about making the referendum not on separating from Ukraine, but for possibility for people to elect their governors, to make language laws and many-many other topics wich worried people. I think that it is what people wanted and got clear answer that they are nothing.
I agreed with you,Rebels do not want peace, Putin, and Russian government cannot allow peace, they must continue fighting until they accomplished Russia's goals...invade and take over Ukraine, just as they did with Crimea. World powers should not allow this to happen, they must stop Putin and rebels....either by military means or economic and military sanctions. We all know, the world knows Russia is involve and responsible for the Malaysia jet shot down, Russians terrorist will not take such actions without the Kremlin approval.....Putin's and government.
Great UN by imposing more sanctions on Russia, but it's not enough. Sanctions must be severe that will make Russia, and Russia terrorist to stop this aggression and killing of innocent people. Russia must stop this war in Ukraine, must stop supporting and providing light and heavy weapons to Russian terrorist. France must stop the sale of Mistral warships to Russia,if does not stop....France should be blame for deaths of more innocents. Russia may use the Mistral warships against Ukraine, UN, NATO and allies. France must stop this stupidity warships to Russia. UN, NATO, EU, UK, US and allies must pressed France, must stop the sale of warships to Russia. Putin, Russians terrorist have already killed plenty of innocents, not to mentioned the Malaysia's innocent killed by Russia shooting down the jet. How long more does world powers, EU, UN and international community must wait to take severe actions military and economic against Russia, how many more people they are waiting to be kill so they can act against Russia? What is the purposed of those Russian terrorist, its Russia expansion? Does the world powers and international community...believe Russia's lies, have they learned anything from Russia's news reporter who resigned because Russian government ask them to lie to the public? how much more can we take from Russia? I am sorry for the lost of life of those innocents killed, this would not have happened if Putin, Russia government had not cooperate with rebels in shooting down the Malaysia's plane. God bless the whole world.
See what really happen in the East of Ukraine
https://news.vice.com/topic/ukraine
there conflicting evidence from both size , politics is taking its toll and people must accept that. i think just like the jews in gaza strip, Russian has the right to protect its russian citizens be it those in russia or elsewhere. lets seek peace and take the world forward
Russia is not protecting Russian citizens. Russia's mission is to protect UKRAINIAN CITIZENS who happen to be ethnic Russians.
This small minority of ethnic Russians have now lived in Ukraine for 21 years and their major complaint is that they don't want to learn to speak Ukrainian.
They claim their children can't cope with learning Ukrainian, and they insist that 44 million Ukrainian citizens - most of whom are ethnic Ukrainians - adopt Russian as the official language of Ukraine. Apparently it's so much easier for ethnic Ukrainians to learn Russian.
Ukraine is a multiethnic country. Ukraine has offered Regional language status to Russians and other minorities in regions where 15% of speakers speak a language other than Ukrainian at home. Yet, this solution is not acceptable to this small Russian chauvinist minority.
15% speaks Russian at home? Are you mad? It is 80%
I agreed with you,Rebels do not want peace, Putin, and Russian government cannot allow peace, they must continue fighting until they accomplished Russia's goals...invade and take over Ukraine, just as they did with Crimea. World powers should not allow this to happen, they must stop Putin and rebels....either by military means or economic and military sanctions. We all know, the world knows Russia is involve and responsible for the Malaysia jet shot down, Russians terrorist will not take such actions without the Kremlin approval.....Putin's and government.
Great UN by imposing more sanctions on Russia, but it's not enough. Sanctions must be severe that will make Russia, and Russia terrorist to stop this aggression and killing of innocent people. Russia must stop this war in Ukraine, must stop supporting and providing light and heavy weapons to Russian terrorist. France must stop the sale of Mistral warships to Russia,if does not stop....France should be blame for deaths of more innocents. Russia may use the Mistral warships against Ukraine, UN, NATO and allies. France must stop this stupidity warships to Russia. UN, NATO, EU, UK, US and allies must pressed France, must stop the sale of warships to Russia. Putin, Russians terrorist have already killed plenty of innocents, not to mentioned the Malaysia's innocent killed by Russia shooting down the jet. How long more does world powers, EU, UN and international community must wait to take severe actions military and economic against Russia, how many more people they are waiting to be kill so they can act against Russia? What is the purposed of those Russian terrorist, its Russia expansion? Does the world powers and international community...believe Russia's lies, have they learned anything from Russia's news reporter who resigned because Russian government ask them to lie to the public? how much more can we take from Russia? I am sorry for the lost of life of those innocents killed, this would not have happened if Putin, Russia government had not cooperate with rebels in shooting down the Malaysia's plane. God bless the whole world.
Christina discussions with relation to Russia and its current president Putin are predetermined and never weigh the situational facts either by ignorance or by convenience
Before the crash the whole wolrd paid no attention to this conflict despite hundreds of CIVILIANS killed. There is a full throttle war with thousand of people killed from both sides. The ones seeing this as a fun or joke obviously have no idea about what is going on there. They provide no respect to died civilians.
The crash is tradegy, of course. However, it was insane to allow civilians jets to fly over the war zone where more than 10 military jets and helicopters were already shot down.
Again, no one cared about the confict until now.
Where are you located?
Where I am, in New England, USA, CNN and other media have been showing this conflict front page or front news ever since the Crimea takeover and before.
Please don't underestimate what the rest of the world knew or knows about the events in Ukraine.
People are very well aware that Putin broke his promise to respect and protect the SOVEREIGNTY of UKRAINE. In March, after he was humiliated at the Olympics, he sent his special ops dressed like "Little Green Men" into Crimea; after a PRETEND REFERENDUM in Crimea, these terrorists declared independence; Putler pretended that the REFERENDUM was legal and properly carried out; Putler's terrorist requested annexation of Crimea to Russia and Putler and his government granted that bogus request.
Apparently, Putler's expectation was that he could repeat that same scam all over Ukraine, but in many areas of Ukraine his terrorists were trounced... In some place, like Odesa, it lead to bloodshed, in two areas of Eastern Ukraine that battle continues. So, who is guilty in the bloodshed in Ukraine? Clearly it is Putin and his terrorists and his egomaniacal dream of building a NEW RUSSIAN EMPIRE.
"After he was humiliated at the Olympic" – what are you smoking? Haven't Russia set up a new record by the number of medals in new olympic? (and para-olympic as well btw)
Mark Legara, I suppose you still don't know that ukranian aviation has bombed Donetsk and Lugansk. So, you think whole city can consist of armed separatists? Or kids and old people aren't civilians? I consider you should wake up.
I'm only commenting on weekday the ambassador said in the interview. He referred to the separatists as " civilians ". Do you think 100% of these separatists ate still civilians?
Definatly not 100%, but do you think none of the separatists are civilians? – in western and Ukraine media, they are often referred to as terrorists, is that an ok?
Read Ella's post below... if true, then it's enlightening.
Ella's post is accurate. Putin himself advised his terrorist to hide behind women and children and his terrorists are doing exactly that. To further their cause they create havoc and Life New is usually there to cover those events. That makes for “great photo opportunity.” This is Putin's propaganda war carried out by his ops in Ukraine and coverage of Ukrainian real or stages events becomes an important recruitment tool. Putin leaned well from Goebbles, whom he admires. He has bamboozled Russians. They actually believe his propaganda.
In an interview, an elderly woman said something to the effect that even during WWII, the Germans did not do what Putin's terrorists do in Eastern Ukraine. The Germans stayed out of populated areas but not Putin's terrorists. They want to inflict as much damage as they can on Ukraine and Ukrainians.
The history of Ukraine:
Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 was a commercial flight shot down by the Ukrainian military over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia.
Russia has a similar history... remember KAL007?
I remember how they howled at russia on that diaster, it was said at the time that the plane had a camera in the belly to photograph the russian installation, i remember flight 800 left the airport out over the ocean and a military officier came on the news to say radar clearly shows a missle took that flight down, half hour later he came back on the news and said no , no a missle never took that flight down we were mistakeing, thier was someone on that plane someone was prepared to pay any price to take out, same as the iranian passenger plane, malaysia flight 370 all the speculation,news BS week after week and what did it produce B.S , B.S. Do you not see the americans out front howling wolf at what evere will fit there agenda, do you not see them race to find black boxes, I am not american or russian or anything else, we want people to stop killing other people, the USA has a horrible track record for starting wars, sacking and looting resources, Evolution tells us the USA is in big trouble for thier lies and diect, toranado, earthquakes severe weather they are going to end up like HAITIA only different with no friends, Stop the B.S and quit causeing all those disasters we hate all those things, mind your own business.
It is weird that even though it was downed by the country named Soviet Union, Russia is to blame. When Holodomor happened in USSR Ukraine – again Russia is to blame. Ukraine has nothing to do with any of these events, even though ethnically Ukranian soldiers were everywhere in the USSR miliraty in 1983.
Remember the airliner Ukraine shot down in 2001?
oh, right, you don't know, poor victim of propaganda.
France supports Russia with warships. We have traitors.
Not really. Russia already paid for the ships and since the sterns are made in Russia the boats would have to be dismantled at a huge cost to France. Only because the Kiev Ukrainians live by the typical Slavic quality that stealing is 'ok' and never intend to pay 10 bln $ owed to Russia, in no reason the French should lower themselves to that level
If it were not so tragic it would be funny...
Ukraine is nasty but Russia who stole Crimea, part of Georgia, is trying hard to steal part of Moldova, etc., is the innocent victim.
And America sells grain to Russia – Gosh! We must have traitors there too!
And American oil companies are operating in Russia – OMG!!! traitors there too!
Traitors, traitors... everywhere!...
A hard of sheep doing the bidding of their master can't have traitors.
Or maybe you should realize that France has stopped being a friend of the USA since the Irak war ....... Europe is growing tired of the USA, that is the real game changer.
Yes, you are correct...FRance is a Traitor to EU, NATO, US and allies....France is a traitor!!
I agreed with you,Rebels do not want peace, Putin, and Russian government cannot allow peace, they must continue fighting until they accomplished Russia's goals...invade and take over Ukraine, just as they did with Crimea. World powers should not allow this to happen, they must stop Putin and rebels....either by military means or economic and military sanctions. We all know, the world knows Russia is involve and responsible for the Malaysia jet shot down, Russians terrorist will not take such actions without the Kremlin approval.....Putin's and government.
Great UN by imposing more sanctions on Russia, but it's not enough. Sanctions must be severe that will make Russia, and Russia terrorist to stop this aggression and killing of innocent people. Russia must stop this war in Ukraine, must stop supporting and providing light and heavy weapons to Russian terrorist. France must stop the sale of Mistral warships to Russia,if does not stop....France should be blame for deaths of more innocents. Russia may use the Mistral warships against Ukraine, UN, NATO and allies. France must stop this stupidity warships to Russia. UN, NATO, EU, UK, US and allies must pressed France, must stop the sale of warships to Russia. Putin, Russians terrorist have already killed plenty of innocents, not to mentioned the Malaysia's innocent killed by Russia shooting down the jet. How long more does world powers, EU, UN and international community must wait to take severe actions military and economic against Russia, how many more people they are waiting to be kill so they can act against Russia? What is the purposed of those Russian terrorist, its Russia expansion? Does the world powers and international community...believe Russia's lies, have they learned anything from Russia's news reporter who resigned because Russian government ask them to lie to the public? how much more can we take from Russia? I am sorry for the lost of life of those innocents killed, this would not have happened if Putin, Russia government had not cooperate with rebels in shooting down the Malaysia's plane. God bless the whole world.
How come Andrew Wilson knows what happened in Donetsk and Luhansk? My family and friends are there and what they see is that the terrorists put Grads and other weapons on the roofs of apartment blocks, next to schools and kindergartens. The explosions which have been happening in the past few days were not aviation bombs so please stop spreading rumours....for the sake of clarity in terms, it is important to emphasise that it's not "separatists" or "rebels" any more, it is Russia-sponsored and equipped mercenaries with only a handful of true separatists left, who are responsible for the current bloodshed. Russia keeps sending troops and arms. Have a look at Lenta.ru news today. 200 Serbian chetniks "arrived ti Ukraine" (Lenta, conveniently, does not state HOW they arrived – via the Russian border)
If what you say is true, and I have no reason not to believe you, then why doesn't CNN and other western media outlets share this information with everyone?
I wish I knew why. All I know is that my parents and my brother are safe only because they left their apartments and moved to my grandma's village 25km from Donetsk (two checkpoints with Ukrainian soldiers there, thank God). They hear explosions at night but it has been safe for now (the so-called DNR has never reached them). In Donetsk itself it's bad; my cousins, friends, other relatives have left to stay with friends/relations in other parts of Ukraine. And some of them had difficulties escaping because DNR prevented them from leaving Donetsk (by confiscating cars and turning them back at checkpoints). My university friend lives in Krasnyi Luch (very close to Grabovo where MH17 was downed). She told me they have had various flags in their city hall: LNR, Russian tricolour, red USSR flag. And they are so close to the border they see BTRs, tanks, artillery equipment and trucks with soldiers (with no insignia) crossing from Russia several times a week (we can only wonder how Ukrianian army alllows it). Most of the people I know have always been pro-Ukrainian, some (incl. my pensioner aunt who stupidly voted DNR in May) say they made a mistake and are regretting it and want to live in Ukraine... But everyone is afraid of confronting the armed men who speak Russian with Moskovite, Siberian, Chechen, Dagestani or Serbian accents. Anyway, this was a detour from the topic, but I just wanted to share that the local people I know feel that if it weren't for Russia's attempt to destabilise the country, the conflict would have exhausted itself ages ago. people are suffering and feel that Russia is at war with them because all of the evidence says it. They also hope that there will be more actions by the international community to stop the war... and by the way, for myself and for my family and 99% of my friends, Russian is the first language, my surname is Russian and some of my extended family consider themselves ethnic Russians. And nowadays, I am ashamed to speak Russian to my toddler in case someone might think I am Russian (I live in London)
Grad is a truck-mounted MRLS. I'd love to see how you get one on top of an apartment building. And Ukraininan army regularily fires MRLS salvos from 20 km off into cities. The dispersion of those missiles is hundereds of meters – they are not firing at anything specific, just bombarding the cities to terrorise the population. This is collective punishment, a war crime.
I also said "next to schools and kindergartens", Mr Subbotin.
I have heard these lies like thousand times already – please ask both your family AND friends to take photos or better videos, that will just end this conflict. Until that do not post that nonsense
It was an unfortunate mistake by some over zealous rebels. They thought they had a victory while it wound up being a tragedy. They should fess-up, accept this blunder, punish those who made the mistake and move along. All this political posturing is going no where. Both east and west will continue their propaganda pushes and produce what they want their people to believe is the truth. Alas... the days when personal responsibility was important are long gone so we will have to live with the "what is the real truth" as both sides will flood their people with their view of what really happened. Pity.
This is exactly right, look at all the so called news professionalism on flight 370 weeks after weeks the same B.S with a little added gravy, what has all thier expert know produced, nothing but B.S We are sick of that news channel and thier trouble makeing reporters, If the USA has all the sophisticated satellite and radar and equipment that we know they have why don,t they produce the evidence, just one piece of truthfull evidence, why don,t they tell us where is flight 370, what happened to flight 370 surely the poor malaysians don,t deserve all those disasters, someone is doing a lot of lieing , and we know who that someone is don,t we, We the citizens of the public and nations do not want those things happening,
I agreed with you,Rebels do not want peace, Putin, and Russian government cannot allow peace, they must continue fighting until they accomplished Russia's goals...invade and take over Ukraine, just as they did with Crimea. World powers should not allow this to happen, they must stop Putin and rebels....either by military means or economic and military sanctions. We all know, the world knows Russia is involve and responsible for the Malaysia jet shot down, Russians terrorist will not take such actions without the Kremlin approval.....Putin's and government.
Great UN by imposing more sanctions on Russia, but it's not enough. Sanctions must be severe that will make Russia, and Russia terrorist to stop this aggression and killing of innocent people. Russia must stop this war in Ukraine, must stop supporting and providing light and heavy weapons to Russian terrorist. France must stop the sale of Mistral warships to Russia,if does not stop....France should be blame for deaths of more innocents. Russia may use the Mistral warships against Ukraine, UN, NATO and allies. France must stop this stupidity warships to Russia. UN, NATO, EU, UK, US and allies must pressed France, must stop the sale of warships to Russia. Putin, Russians terrorist have already killed plenty of innocents, not to mentioned the Malaysia's innocent killed by Russia shooting down the jet. How long more does world powers, EU, UN and international community must wait to take severe actions military and economic against Russia, how many more people they are waiting to be kill so they can act against Russia? What is the purposed of those Russian terrorist, its Russia expansion? Does the world powers and international community...believe Russia's lies, have they learned anything from Russia's news reporter who resigned because Russian government ask them to lie to the public? how much more can we take from Russia? I am sorry for the lost of life of those innocents killed, this would not have happened if Putin, Russia government had not cooperate with rebels in shooting down the Malaysia's plane. God bless the whole world.
Never heard nor seen Putin sent condolences to families of innocent victims of MH17. Never heard once that he publicly condemned strongly whoever shot down the plane. It's because he would condemn his own military?
You see only what they decide you can see. A lot of condolences from people of Russia for what happened. Whoever did it (ukrainian militaries or rebels) it is a great shame what happens, I mean this war of unjustified blames. Sorry for poor English.
People no matter who killed those people, they will not get away Jesus the righteous Judge will Judge with avenges.
You never heard because your mass media never covered it! Our president expressed his sorrow and condolences too all families of poor victims not once. Stop demonizing Russia and to lie here all the time.! Putin urged many times to stop the bloodshed! Who did it? Who stopped airstriking Ukrainian cities? Did you see Ukrainian Parlament's meetings? They often fight there with eath other and abuse....watch and you will see how they "respect their collegues" If Russia is a monster and agressor why 517000 refugees fled to Russia? and Ukrain did nothing to support them. Are you aware that the sate of emergency was imposed in several regions of Russia due to such a great people inflow to settle down?. Do you know that our border guards accepted Urkainian armed forces to hospitilize when they were injured hard next to Russian border and all doctors interrupted their vacations and started working to save their militaries??Do you have any idea what is going on there? My mam has received a guest from Ukraine. That is a middle-aged woman...and my mother was shoked how she aged for the past half of year due to the situation there...She told about numerous murders of both Russians and Ukrainian people there....She was scared and concerned...how can you judge? if you have no idea! Your mass media never cover the truth! They often show events to their benefit.
You seem to be just brain-washed there. Look around and see how many people suffer from so called democratical officials in kieve! They bomb civiiians daily and veil it. They do not show the women and the children with their arms, legs, heads shot away but I saw it on TV. I do not even watch news now because it is hard to see...I hope that CNN will not delete it. Last time all my comments were deleted.
Please! Numerous murders by whom? Yes, lots of civilians died as a result of military action. But you are implying that the Ukrainian government tries to kill its own population. You are right about watching Russian TV though – avoid. The propaganda machine is very efficient. Allegedly crucified children, photos and videos recycled from past disasters and wars... really, they should learn to be a bit more subtle. But I suppose the majority of the gullible Russian population drunk on their superiority and dreams of the empire, will eat this rubbish.
Dear, Eva. open your eyes and look. that your blood hand officials kill its own people! they bomb them daily! The kill them! they tourture them! they arrest them! They shoot depities in the streets! it is funny what you say that everything is ok there...that you have so decent goverment. iopen your eyes and keep awake. Your president and his supporters are steepped in crimes.
Perhaps if your Putin could keep his hands of Sovereign Countries in his quest to recreate the long-gone Russian empire, we the people of the world would not have to watch in horror what he has brought to the people of Ukraine, to their land, and now to 300 innocent travelers.
How about if you Russian citizens who are so bothered by events in Ukraine go to Moscow and show Putin that you don't support his policies. But, you don't do that. You sensitive Russians cheer him on. I understand that support for Putin in Russia has never been higher.
http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/22690
VLADIMIR PUTIN: In the name of the Russian leadership and the Government of the Russian Federation, we express our condolences to all the victims’ families and the governments of the nations whose citizens were on that plane. Let us honour their memory.
What USA has earned by shooting down Malaysian Airplane along with its new friend Ukraine.
01, A plea to intervene in Ukraine under the umbrella of UNO
02, Sympathies of the Western world for Ukraine.
03, Success in Making a block of nations against Russia.
04, Diverting the public opinion against Russia.
One wonders as to
What concern USA has with Ukraine issue ?
I agreed with you,Rebels do not want peace, Putin, and Russian government cannot allow peace, they must continue fighting until they accomplished Russia's goals...invade and take over Ukraine, just as they did with Crimea. World powers should not allow this to happen, they must stop Putin and rebels....either by military means or economic and military sanctions. We all know, the world knows Russia is involve and responsible for the Malaysia jet shot down, Russians terrorist will not take such actions without the Kremlin approval.....Putin's and government.
Great UN by imposing more sanctions on Russia, but it's not enough. Sanctions must be severe that will make Russia, and Russia terrorist to stop this aggression and killing of innocent people. Russia must stop this war in Ukraine, must stop supporting and providing light and heavy weapons to Russian terrorist. France must stop the sale of Mistral warships to Russia,if does not stop....France should be blame for deaths of more innocents. Russia may use the Mistral warships against Ukraine, UN, NATO and allies. France must stop this stupidity warships to Russia. UN, NATO, EU, UK, US and allies must pressed France, must stop the sale of warships to Russia. Putin, Russians terrorist have already killed plenty of innocents, not to mentioned the Malaysia's innocent killed by Russia shooting down the jet. How long more does world powers, EU, UN and international community must wait to take severe actions military and economic against Russia, how many more people they are waiting to be kill so they can act against Russia? What is the purposed of those Russian terrorist, its Russia expansion? Does the world powers and international community...believe Russia's lies, have they learned anything from Russia's news reporter who resigned because Russian government ask them to lie to the public? how much more can we take from Russia? I am sorry for the lost of life of those innocents killed, this would not have happened if Putin, Russia government had not cooperate with rebels in shooting down the Malaysia's plane. God bless the whole world.
But President Putin the color is white...No he says, it's black painted over by eastern capitalism...
I watched different talk shows on RT yesterday and today just to see who would bring up MH17 to discuss on the air.
None. They talked about ISIS, Israel-Palestinian conflict, Iraq and others but not about downing of MH17. Wonder why?
Strange that you did not see. There was even report of our military department on RT. He reported about militaries movements for the past days.
not true
Ukrainian shoulder for America and pup-it EU . A new American out post against Russia . No rules only in-trusts matter's . Who will be the losers beside Ukraine ?
The Russian ambassador to UN has just said that the rebel was confused between the civilian airliner and military fighter jet. They couldn't distinguish the difference. So they shot by confusion, not an act of terrorism. Listen carefully, he already acknowledged who in fact pushed the button. Putin, what do you have to say about this supposed to be your confused militia had a finger on SA-11 to shoot down the airline?
I heard that the rebels could not shoot down the passenger jet because they never mastered such a sophisticated rocket system skill to use. just heard many points of veiw about it. The experts said that they could not do it. Even not each professional officer can do it l because it takes a pretty long time to learn it. Also Ukraine militaries represantatives refused to present all records reports so far. As I know they must keep a register of their activity daily. I tend to think that the rebels have nothing to do with it...Those Ukrainian rebels were never professional soliers before. I do not believe in independent investigation. It unlikely will be objective if UK investigates the case. How can it be honest if UK is an ally of the US?? I will not be surprised if an astute manipulation of facts will take place. Uk and the US are in confrontation with Russia and their investigation results will be honest?
That may be true, but there have also been numerous reports of Russian ops taking part in these operations in Ukraine, starting with Crimea. That would be even worse. Hiding behind terrorists is one thing but if it will ever be proved that someone from the Russian Military took part in this operation it would be even worse.
amanpour is an idiot crush is in ukraine why is russia responsible for bodies
How predictable: everyone who s generally anti- american likes the ukrainian fighter theory, despite the fact that several planes have been destroyed by the rebels days before the incident, the plane was in rebel territory, and there is no. evidence of 2 planes in the area. Even the rebels mentioned only one plane
People like you would love to live in Putins Russia, where the truth always bends the right way
Who were the four people that parachuted to the ground, the ukarainian goverment said they were in a safe place , are thery trying to tell us that the pilots and co-pilots bailled out and left those stewardesses and other employees on the plane to crash, should they not have stayed on the plane , the captain is supposed to be the last one to leave the ship, those comments from the ukarainian goverment indicates that there really was a third plane, where did it go , or was it shot down after it shot the passenger plane down, we are all trying to make sense of a horrible situation, we do not want to accuse anyone for the tradgedy, i think we all owe them people on board the respect to be intelligent and move forward peacefully for thier sakes our condolences to thier families hopeing they will find closure,
Putin, the GOP darling now showing his true tea party colors.
"Meanwhile, Russian Army Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov suggested a Ukrainian jet fighter may have shot the plane down."
Why on earth should a Ukranian fighter pilot want to shoot down a civilian airliner on a regular flight?
Why WHY would anyone, those people that died they use to have had a life, to day they do not,
Russia's way of apologizing: "It's unfortunate, but Ukraine is to blame."
The airplane was actually flying over Ukraine which is still a sovereign state.
never mind the russian said there were 3! buk systems right under the belly of mh17 active.
Now look at the donetks region who's controlled more or less by the seperatists only incursions on both sides on the borders as well as one targeting a city 150km above where mh17 is down.
The ukrainian had a base read protected base in there it was overrun and taken over.
BuK has 35km tops range and they where even according to the russians near a town in the centre of donetks region which is roughly 500km wide.
So dear ambassador do we actually have to believe that ukraine was capable of running 3 buk systems setting the mancraft up smack down in the middle of enemy territory? while they couldn't even protect an armored base near.
Do all separists suffer from being blind on that time or something because even the half blind can see 3 buk systems running through your territory it's not like they are small and the risk of loosing them all to the separatists would be way too big.
How do you know what it is like to live in Putin' s Russia? Which truth do you mean – destabilizing Ukraine and pointing to the neighbour?
It was to Mr. Hermanovic
Ukrainians have 3 BUK missile stations around separatist regions. (that's one). Separatists have none so far, nor have they a minimum 6 to 8 WELL trained, missile crew, along with radar stations, mobile command unit, etc, etc (just google BUK minimum requirements to operate) (that's two). Most of the "evidence" in the media, is a home made, high school trash like "recordered call", tweetter account and other juvenile tricks any of you can do and set up in few hours, therefore, there is not a SINGLE piece of evidence! (that's three). Russians gave their sat.stats and other military info. US gave none (besides "we believe") (that's four). Ukraine HAS history of shooting down civilian planes (as well as USA.) by accident! And don't bring up Korean air in the 80's, that USSR shot down, at least they did it on purpose and didn't denied it. (that's five). Most importantly, WHAT have those rebels were going to achieve by taking the plane down, besides the World's hate and anger towards them! But what have Kiev were to gain by downing the plane? That's right, World's sympathy and assistance! Ask yourselves: what country/s will benefit the most and what country benefit the least?! And finally, after calling everyone around "terrorists", and screaming "look at me, look at me", Poroshenko and the gang, didn't even bothered to make a day of mourning for the victims (vs. Putin and his cabinet started with the minute of silence and calls to every nation's Presidents, who's citizens were on board (including Australia and New Zealand). What a twisted and hypocritical world we live in.....
p.s. and I am not a Putin's fan by the way. There are many wrong things in Russia , but at least they are brutally straight about many things. Have you read the speeches? Russia is like a thug, US is like a circus clowns or a monkeys in a cage in the loudest screaming contest!
Ukraine shot down a civilian aircraft before and now they done it again to blame Russia and cover their campaign of mass murder against the people who don't want to live in their hell hole.
USA is covering the crimes of their illegally installed puppet, and westerners are complicit in ethnic cleansing in Ukraine.
What has Poland to do with Russia now? You may as well bring "golodomor" that Stalin did in the 20's, the battles of 13th 14th,15th and so on centuries! But what the heck, let's start with the Bible period or Roman Empire! (and don't forget to blame it all on Putin)!
Russia may be a new country, but underneath the new flag and trappings of democracy, it's run by the same old Soviet leaders and this is exactly the same kind of nonsense and misdirection they would say back in the 80's when they refused to take responsibility for something, even when caught red-handed. It's going to take the death or retirement of these anachronistic hardliners before Russia can grow up.
The world is actually an old place :-). Signs change not leaders, sorry the Ukrainian people did not understand it with their one more Maidan show resulted in all this mess...
putin just beggin for an all out war. he knows something. just waiting for an excuse to put all the cards in play
To be honest, msian beleive russoan more than the ukraine or us... their officiala have secretly dealt with the russian and asked for their assistance. Most msian are on the russian side since they have given reliable proof rather than wild allegation.they are still waiting for the reliable proof from the ukraine/us...
He looks like he has recently made a begel head implant
It is very pity that day by day the Westeren press and country leaders tell common people – "WHO" ( I mean Russia or anti-Kiev rebels) downed MH17. They do it before – may I underline it?!! – before the international experts made a conclusion on WHO and HOW did it. In fact the mass media propaganda makes people beliving in bad Russia and if several weeks later experts tell the world that the Ukraine war plane downed the MH17 jet, nobody would take any attention on it. Let's wait till the official investigation conclusion.
P.S. In my opinion only the Ukraine is responsible for all victims. That is their's government fault that the domestic policy was so stupid and such unprofessional that their own people started a rebel against them. I don't belive in such stories as fairy tales about russian troops were beeing sent to the DNR region. Some professionals and officers – may be, but most of soldiers are local civilian people who just want to be free and to speak their mothertongue language.
So...because Ukraine has had to fight off invaders and traitorous citizens serving Russia instead of their own homeland, it's THEIR fault?
In other words, Russia is saying that Ukraine is at fault, because it should have given in to the invaders, so there could have been "peace" when that plane flew overhead.
Russia wants the fighting to "end" soon. In other words, letting Russia and the traitorous separatists have their way.
This ambassador is telling us there is no evidence against the separatists or Russia, smack in the face of evidence we have all SEEN for ourselves, of drunken bozos with big guns, impeding the unarmed experts who came to manage the investigation. We have SEEN for ourselves locals meandering at will around the site, looting, and taking away evidence (the black boxes, and possibly rocket parts), all while bodies rotted in the hot sun.
Yeah, Mr. Ambassador, there is no evidence of culpability on the part of the "separatist" traitors and Russia.
I have to wonder if they're picking up pointers from Muslims on how to lie, confuse and confound an enemy.
Does it get any stupider than that?
And it's just not going to work for them. Don't try to tell us we didn't SEE what we SAW.
Putin is merely compounding his own culpability, and that of his good buddies in Ukraine. He'd have done better to keep his mouth closed.
Just hand back that land and a that's it, we want nothing 2 do with you. We can just say Russia has stolen that land put medium sanction on them, then border up and let them keep that small area 2 the size of Ukraine. The west can say "we have had it" leave them new to be sanctioned on Russian, hurting their economy "some what" forever, and border up.
I would then set up visas that stops anyone moving into there country. That can stop any Russian's moving deeper in land to start trouble.
There are good qualities and bad qualities to every country and president... now is not the time to debate, point fingers, blame, and or make this about politics!
A plane carrying innocent people was shot down and crashed leaving wreckage and bodies everywhere. NO person should have touched the bodies nor take anything off the bodies. Personal belongings should be returned immediately! NO person should have tampered with evidence at the crash site. Armed men should have allowed investigators to recover the bodies quickly and gather evidence. Nothing good comes out of fighting and tragedies happen that hurt everyone in or around the fighting. The world is in chaos... and that is heartbreaking for us all.
The person who shot the missile should come forward and if not I hope the investigation finds you soon.
This is a very very sad situation and I can't imagine what the families are going through.
Vladimir Putin is to blame, Russia supplied the weapons used to hit the malaysian 777, costing hundreds of innocent lives.Putin delivered state of the art missiles to the ukranian separatists , who must be broght to justice for crimes against humanity
How's that search for WMD in Iraq going?
"Indeed it is a game changer. It is time to stop supporting the Ukrainian government in its campaign against civilians." You mean the civilians operating SA-11 Buk surface to air missiles?
He means the USA puppets who killed women and children in Slaviansk and are now covering their tracks.
There is not a single piece of evidence that the Russian government supplied any weapons at all to the freedom fighters of Novorossia, nor is there any evidence that they are using any weapons that they couldn't have gotten from the Ukrainian regime's stockpiles, obtained after the revolution.
Stop lying, Amanpour.
Do a report on the civilians the Ukrainian regime murders every day.
http://ukraine-human-rights.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/10479483_1454892884765509_5645197473935061847_o.jpg
I think it would be helpful if CNN started putting the estimated net worth of Russian officials after their names (sort of like U.S. journalists used to put a D or an R after the name of a Congressman). It would help clarify how they can come up with their absurd excuses and proposals and keep a straight face.
As for their suggestions, I say we let Russia lead by example and free Chechnya.
Partisans here in US sneer at Obama for allegedly lying, yet he can't hold a candle to Putin in that department. Putin is the preeminent Bold Faced Liar!
Please name me some innocent politician?
american govt is shi_t, and Americans are disgusting breed to believe whatever CNN throws. they only make world a worse place, with indirect support to rebels and made up stories like this and what they did in iraq and turned these places to hell. with no remorse
The separatists were caught red-handed. Of course they shot the plane down, but it was a mistake. We need to separate the conflict between Ukraine and Russia from the act of shooting down the Malaysian jet with international passengers. Those responsible for shooting down the plane should face international justice, but for that act alone in this case, not for being for or against Kiev. There should also be some understanding that this was most likely an idiotic mistake on the part of the separatists and not done with the intent of dragging the world into their conflict. An act resulting in the deaths of 298 people should be punished, and I leave it up to the judges to determine how much of a difference the fact it was an accident makes.
Lets listen to this song
There lived a certain man in Russia long ago
He was big and strong, in his eyes a flaming glow
Most people looked at him with terror and with fear
But to Moscow chicks he was such a lovely dear
He could preach the bible like a preacher
Full of ecstacy and fire
But he also was the kind of teacher
Women would desire
RA RA RASPUTIN
Lover of the Russian queen
There was a cat that really was gone
RA RA RASPUTIN
Russia's greatest love machine
It was a shame how he carried on
He ruled the Russian land and never mind the Czar
But the kasachok he danced really wunderbar
In all affairs of state he was the man to please
But he was real great when he had a girl to squeeze
For the queen he was no wheeler dealer
Though she'd heard the things he'd done
She believed he was a holy healer
Who would heal her son
RA RA RASPUTIN
Lover of the Russian queen
There was a cat that really was gone
RA RA RASPUTIN
Russia's greatest love machine
It was a shame how he carried on
[Spoken:]
But when his drinking and lusting and his hunger
for power became known to more and more people,
the demands to do something about this outrageous
man became louder and louder.
"This man's just got to go!" declared his enemies
But the ladies begged "Don't you try to do it, please"
No doubt this Rasputin had lots of hidden charms
Though he was a brute they just fell into his arms
Then one night some men of higher standing
Set a trap, they're not to blame
"Come to visit us" they kept demanding
And he really came
RA RA RASPUTIN
Lover of the Russian queen
They put some poison into his wine
RA RA RASPUTIN
Russia's greatest love machine
He drank it all and he said "I feel fine"
RA RA RASPUTIN
Lover of the Russian queen
They didn't quit, they wanted his head
RA RA RASPUTIN
Russia's greatest love machine
And so they shot him till he was dead
[Spoken:] Oh, those Russians...
Hahahahaha!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvDMlk3kSYg
Why didn't you make a report about your Ukronazi "friends" burning people alive in Odessa, Amanpour?
Stop your shameless lies! There are no any nazies in Odessa. Every child in Odessa knows that this tragedy was intentionally organised . The victims of this tragedy died only with purpose to compromise pro-Ukraininan supporters and have a brutal media image for Russian tv. The same happens now in Donbass : the terrorists shoot the houses where the civilians live , but blame Ukrainian army for this.
Tell that to the relatives of people you burned alive and shot for having different opinions, nazi.
All parties must be given a face-saving plan to get out of this mess. Things escalate when egos are hurt.
"It has all started when USA has organized a coup ."
How absurd - "it’s the fault of the US," the corrupt government that was stealing Ukraine and Ukrainians blind and was leading the country "Back to the USSR" is not to blame.
Students protested the decision not to sign the EU agreement, the idiot president's henchmen brutally attacked them and that led to more protests. Had the president guts enough to apologize for that incident, things might have turned out differently.
The Association of all Churches in Ukraine, including Jews, Muslims, Orthodox and Eastern Rite Catholics all support the current government. The only ones who don’t support the Ukrainian government are the fascist Russians who can't stand Poles, Jews, Chechen's, Georgians, Ukrainian, etc., and can't accept that Ukrainians are not and don't want to be assimilated into Russians, and their Supreme Leader– Putler – who has no respect for life or other people’s choices.
Nobody cares what Putincito's thinks is or is not his message.
Russia is trying to avoid responsibility for the Malaysia plane tragedy any which way, even showing themselves like the most affected in this situation. They've forgotten that they were the ones who began with all of this chaotic period of illegal and abusive way of annexing territories as if walking over sovereignties were as easy as walking over papers.
Let's go through scenarios for a minute:
1. Is it plausible that either Ukraine or Russia could have downed that plane? Yes
2. Is it plausible that in Ukraine there are Russian rebels? Yes
3. Could these Russian rebels have shot down the plane knowing it would bring bad press to Ukraine?
4. Is it plausible that Ukraine thought that it was a Russian airplane looking to spy on Ukraine? Yes
Opinion reigns in all blog forums, and as the majority of us aren't in Russia or Ukraine ... our opinions lack depth. Depth = knowledge of the players involved, the politics of the situation, the ability to fully understand the story and background from their mother tongue perspective, the culture and affects in was situations, etc.
Opinion ... as far as sophistication and doing everything it takes to destroy a country I would give the edge to Russia as being the ones to down this type of plane. Russia knew what kind of plane this was and the affect on world opinion.
This is my scenario.
Rebels detected military plane. Ukrainians redirected Civilian Plane to place where the military plane flies. Why? Half trained rebels tried to heat military plane but they heated civilian.
here is my scenario:
Ukronazis shot down a civilian airliner to blame the rebels so ukronazis can continue their ethnic cleansing campaign in the east.
"....stop supporting the Ukrainian government in its military campaign against civilians." Really? I think you forgot against ARMED civilians who are actively trying to overthrow the legitimately elected government in the hope of stealing a portion of that country for their own in conjunction with agents of a foreign power who is arming, training and instigating the land-grab. Do you think the whole world believes in the Eater Bunny? No one believes anything you say, except maybe your own media-deprived countrymen.
Chizhov did good comments.
Moreover , The world society have to understand thigs that are going on in UA now:
1. militia are of civil people. most of them are native UA citizens just mostly speaking russian
2. they have their own free and GOOD will to show their desires and wishes not to live under CRIME govt. which took power via armed coup.
3. Kiew still didn't answer 10 inconveniant qustions by Deputy defence mininster Antonov.
From the very beginning this govt is illegal because came to power by revolution and many and many peaceful victins. MH17 is just one of chains of this crime.
Stop repeating nonsense. A president who turned out to be a traitor and who abandoned his post and ran to Moscow, by definition is not able to perform his duties and therefore needs to be replaced. Country-wide elections were held, despite the interference by Putin's terrorists and a legitimate president was elected.
I love your double standard... According to you what happened in Kiev was illegal but what happened in Crimea where legitimate power was usurped by Putin's terrorists, everything that followed was proper and legal... Putin today addressed the question of Russian Sovereignty... Do you actually believe that if any republic of Russia or any region of Russia would attempt such a move as the events in Crimea, Putin would sit back and allow it. He would probably exterminate anyone who even considered such a move. Look at the new laws that have been recently passed in Russia that address these issues. Have you not asked yourself, how is it that one set of rules apply to Putin and Russia and a completely different set of rules apply to other countries.
"A president who turned out to be a traitor and who abandoned his post and ran to Moscow, by definition is not able to perform his duties and therefore needs to be replaced". Country-wide elections were held, despite the interference by Putin's terrorists and a legitimate president was elected."
– By what definition?
What was he supposed to do if he was going to get killed? Stay there and let kill himself? And they would kill him if he stayed. Because if the president is dead, the next one will be very much legal-)
Country-wide elections? Why did the east not vote?
Why did they replace Yanukovich? Because he was a corrupted thief?
What about the government that there is today? Not thiefs? Everything is clear and no corruption? NO! They replaced corrupted government with corrupted government. What's the point? Ahhh the point is that new government does everything what west(US & EU) wants them to do. Take control of all the UA resources, take their gold...etc. How is Poroshenko better than Yanukovich?
Russian Sovereignty? Oh you think if Texas would want to separate from US, Obama will let them? I doubt that.
Noone invaded UA. There are people in the East part that do not agree with Poroshenko. I think they have a right not to agree.
dm1ch, if you going to use a US state in that example, Texas is the worst possible option. Texas was a independant nation prior to opting to join the union and frankly is the only state that has a legal (in writing) option to leave it whenever they choose to do so. Just sayin'...
Putin and its officials are suffering schizophrenia or worse just feigning to have one. Their logic is simply so twisted as if they believed that the world is too dumb to take their statements.
"US Intelligence indicated that there was no evidence that Russia was responsible or related to the downing of MH17....". "US State department and officials said Russian is at least partly responsible for the downing of MH 17.....". Someone please enlighten me on this: who is telling the truth? The pols, or people in the intelligence business. And if the intelligence community has the first hand information and data, why the pols are sooo eager to make statement with conviction that some country – like Russia, is responsible?
it is actually simple, the one percenters who own ninety percent of the weatlt
cause all the wars, misery, violence, and problemms in the world
And governments represent them, with a few exceptions like Cuba
and Viet Nam, so follow that example, or live for nothing
Putin acts like an Asian looking version of Kane West space cadet.
We are flirting with a nuclear war by accusing Russia without a shred of PROOF. If we have a war with Russia, hundreds of millions of people will die, and neither the USA, Europe or Russia will ever recover.
Unfortunately, (a) the process of international diplomacy, (b) the need for the Banker owned news media to get attention, (c) the need for political parties to appeal to American & EU nationalism, and (d) the kinds of NATO and CIA mercenary calculations discussed in this article all reward increasing the risk of actually going over the edge. Unless we can change, sooner or later we may well go over the edge to WW-3!
I hope that the Russians or Chinese are wiser, but I seriously doubt it.
Putin get out of Ukraine! Ivan the world eventually understands what's going on in Ukraine : the old totally corrupted system , the same as in Russia, stands against changes and reforms. But even this is no longer a matter of conflict. People in Donbass die for Putin's personal ambitions. If Russia stopped supplying weaponry and militarists there wouldn't be thiis war.
You should never use Odessa and Ukraine in the same sentence after you burned alive those who do not agree with you, nazi.
funny how US, Ukraine evidense is self made video (proved to be fake) and a "recorded" phone conversation while Russia presented satilite images of Ukrainian Buk systems with turned on radars and satilite image of Ukranian fighter jet 3-5 km near the civilian plane
The best and most sincere proof was Strelok's boastful post in twitter , and news in Russian central channel whose correspondents were the first at the place of the airplane crash . Their sincere excitement over the crash of AN-26 turned out to be the best proof for the whole world. huge mistake!
Vladimir,
Where was the video 'proved to be fake'? I've searched in both Russian and English and can't find any source of this. Perhaps you are honouring Russian tradition by telling little porkies?
video of a buk with a missing missile was made on a Ukraine controlled part of Ukraine and is a joke. How do you imagine Russians transporting a buk system for 100 km not even covering it with anything. That would be stupid taken that there are a bunch of satelites both US and Russian looking constantly looking down at the war site. Listen both US and Russia know exactly who hit the plane. We (average people) will never know the truth. However even if it was pro russian separatists it was done by mistake, accident... which is bad but still an accident, Ukraine and US are using a tragedy in their political game which is not acceptable. And if you want my opinion on the situation, US is pushing their agenda on the rest of the world and is doing this very brutally, look at Lybia, Syria, Iraq etc. like this is all obvious, US trying to control Ukraine is a bad idea since it was always under Russian control and should stay that way. PS if the plane was shut down by Ukraine as an act of provocation (game changing provocation) than thats way too fuked up and in that case US people should stop their government of doing war crimes.
Now I see what meant Bush Sr saying that he would never apologize for America
Your country again has no evidence – just like in Iraq. You, Americans, has no right to judge war in Chechnya or Russian intervention to Afganistan since it is your country who ruined Vietnam, Iraq, Lybia, Yugoslavia (this will never be forgotten) and now Ukraine.
You have no friends, only vassals. Soon the world will get more and more disappointed in you, be ready.
P.S yes Putin pays me $2 per post and for poor Russia it is a great money so sorry guys for spreading truth oh I mean Russian propaganda
Twisted, well-orchestrated Russian reasoning...from Putin down to his cohorts.
Plain & simple. RUSSIAN BUK-SAM downs a civilian airliner murdering 298 people.
No more lame excuses!
So if ISIL uses an American manufactured and supplied Missile to kill civilians your suggesting that the USA should be held responsible?
Omscrue... you don't speak for me. You can can pay those damages but not me.
Very simple:
USA stages a coup in Ukraine and installs a government that starts killing everyone that does not agree with them. Burns people alive in Odessa and bombs civilians with artillery in Slaviansk. Then shoots down an airliner with innocent people to implicate Russia in an information war to their puppet Poroshenko can continue mass murder in the east.
Not the first time USA or Ukraine shoot down a civilian airliner.
and you are not confused by the fact that Ukraine has instructed the aircraft to reduce the height?
To an Asian this is just another case of western "double standard" show-off!
US has shot down an iranian passenger jet not long ago killing all people on board. No big deal. No sanctions.News reporting were very limited (Not even a photograph of the scene). Things die down quickly. There's nothing that money and "unpatriot warnings" to the news media cannot resolve.
But when US and NATO's interest in Ukraine is involved now, not only massive champaine of selected news are used uopn people, looks at those politician's faces really disgusses a true bystander.
An Asian,
perhaps the MH-17 incident has more coverage because the west actually care about their citizens, which is more than can be said for Iran. Life is cheap in Iran. Maybe too cheap for Iranian authorities to bother with.
Perhaps it was thought to be a hijack by islamics, or even a Chinese. In either cases US stands to gain politically. But now it is shown more likely done by the pilot. And so US doesn't give a dame about it any more.
US government is double standart, not professional and worse of all doing things that people of america do not support!
how is US gov care about their citizens if the gab between the rich and the poor in US has been growing crazy for the past 20 years. US was a good country 30 years ago, now US has more crime on the streets than many other countries. US government is failing clearly both on the internal stage and externally.
The World's Best Airlines
1 Emirates
2 Qatar Airways
...
14 Malaysia Airlines
...
After 2 big tragedies Malaysia Airlines will suffer a lot financially. So, in connection with the newest US official statement that they are not even sure about the nationality of the person that shot down the plane: I am just wandering (although it is a far-fetched), can this tragedy be somehow linked with a financier that wants to dominate the air-traffic among Muslim countries? The same financier that is financing ISIS, and wars everywhere where oil and energy is produced?
test
Ukronazis are pathetic and without honor. Even now they are bombing civilians in the east using the airliner they shot down as information cover.
Ukronazis captured journalists again, CNN is silent.
Hi,
This is a sad unlike permutations of events as the American shooting down of Iran Air Flight 655. That Mr. Obama visited the Dutch embassy is a human guest, but you must remember the Dutch on the financial world cheat of America are number one.
And remember folks, western nazis always lose.
http://cs618416.vk.me/v618416779/10340/rZ4vs_qwT7k.jpg
That is an example of another morron. a blind ambassador...
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